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i cant say they are bad sounding amps though.. even zeff stated they were one of the best amps he's ever heard ... that says a lot to me coming from competition..
 

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Yeah .... The 500/1 was the main culprit in our shop too.
As far as the sound ... I'm a REAL , REAL picky bastard . When I listen to amps , I plug them straight into a reference system that does not change ( my car usually ) .... It either sounds basically the same , sounds better , or sounds worse.
Only three amps in the last few years actually sounded worse in my car : JL Audio , Alpine , and Tube Driver.
JL sounded like my " music " just went away. With Alpine I lost my mid-bass , and Tube Driver ... well , they just had serious issues , and should ONLY be used as pretty boat anchors :D
Only one amp actually sounded considerably better than other amps that had been in my car , and that was the Arc SE Series amps.
 

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What issues did you have with the Tube Drivers? Where they the Phaze Audio, PPI, or the new Butler Blue ones? BTW I like the look of the new JL Amps personally...

Ryan
 

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How about tubes introduce tons of distortion and are the crappiest amp technology you can get, regardless of whether certain people prefer the sound of the distortion?

And unless your test was a double-blind ABX test, it's worthless. Not worth less, as in still having some worth, but worthless as in having no worth. Unless something was wrong with the amps, or the settings were different. Except for the tube amp, those introduce a LOT of distortion.
 

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|Tch0rT| said:
What issues did you have with the Tube Drivers? Where they the Phaze Audio, PPI, or the new Butler Blue ones? BTW I like the look of the new JL Amps personally...

Ryan
Yeah ... I should have stated the Tube Drivers I used were of the Butler variety. Even when properly heated up , they ALWAYS had that funny biased tube sound.
For me , there's only two kinds of tube amps : Really good ones , and the rest. I can only name about 5 tube amps I would own. They are all made by either VTL , or Audio Research.
 

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dragonrage said:
How about tubes introduce tons of distortion and are the crappiest amp technology you can get, regardless of whether certain people prefer the sound of the distortion?

And unless your test was a double-blind ABX test, it's worthless. Not worth less, as in still having some worth, but worthless as in having no worth. Unless something was wrong with the amps, or the settings were different. Except for the tube amp, those introduce a LOT of distortion.
Dragon ... What kind of dildo is stuck up your ass man ? You come across as an angry woman who's on the rag.

You're in Mass .... Come up to Winchester , Mass. Take a listen to my system , and then you'll no longer question everything I say.

Send a PM to skierxx5556 and ask him. He's a resident Mass guy , and has heard my system many times. He'll clue you in man ...

I'd offer to buy you a beer , but you seem in a perpetual bad mood ... I'd hate to have you swing on someone who has their own opinion about a particular subject .... LOL
 

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No, I think you're just spreading bad information for the most part, like wire purists do for home audio.

If you'd like to get a group together to do a blind ABX test, I'm up for that. Let me know if you don't know how a blind ABX test works and I'll explain it.
 

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It's too bad every thread on JL has to turn up a basher or two who completely turn the focus of the thread to their insisting JL amps are "omfg like wtf". So much praise has been given to them i think if someone has a bad experience with them they should take it as a personal preference or just the wrong amp for their application and not try to make it sound more broad than that.

Anyways, my question to those who have said they got some jl amp repair headaches: what tends to go wrong? Do the amps just stop working at some point or is it more subtle, do they start to distort more and more?

thanks
 

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a blind test would be pretty sweet..id say if we kept it among diy members it may shed some light on the whole amp sounds like thing among us
 

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zfactor said:
a blind test would be pretty sweet..id say if we kept it among diy members it may shed some light on the whole amp sounds like thing among us
I'm always up for it. I've participated in double blind tests for many years , starting back when i bought the high-end home audio store in TX.
One of the main reasons I'm so quick to say things such as " all amps do NOT sound the same " , is because I have already proven I can reliably tell the difference , time and again.
It makes for a real sore spot with a lot of people , and many have become jealous or angry , but yes ..... I can and do hear the difference , and I know this , due to my experience with double blind listening tests ....
 

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z_accoustics said:
It's too bad every thread on JL has to turn up a basher or two who completely turn the focus of the thread to their insisting JL amps are "omfg like wtf". So much praise has been given to them i think if someone has a bad experience with them they should take it as a personal preference or just the wrong amp for their application and not try to make it sound more broad than that.

Anyways, my question to those who have said they got some jl amp repair headaches: what tends to go wrong? Do the amps just stop working at some point or is it more subtle, do they start to distort more and more?

thanks
Hey Z ... go back and read the original poster's post. He asked for opinions on JL amps .... I simply shared my experience and feelings with him. That doesn't make me a basher , just honest.
 

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AVI said:
I'm always up for it. I've participated in double blind tests for many years , starting back when i bought the high-end home audio store in TX.
One of the main reasons I'm so quick to say things such as " all amps do NOT sound the same " , is because I have already proven I can reliably tell the difference , time and again.
It makes for a real sore spot with a lot of people , and many have become jealous or angry , but yes ..... I can and do hear the difference , and I know this , due to my experience with double blind listening tests ....
Hey AVI, I’m not trying to question your ability to tell amps apart but I'm trying to learn what those differences that you notice are to see if they are things that would be important to me in car audio. For instance, was it something like this amp has more noise or something much more detailed like the stage on this amp is deeper (which for me would not be an issue when considering an amp) and did you test at levels that smaller amps could keep up with the dynamic peaks. Anyone else can share their opinions if they have done similar controlled test. Thanks :)
 

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Discussion Starter #37
dragonrage said:
If you'd like to get a group together to do a blind ABX test, I'm up for that. Let me know if you don't know how a blind ABX test works and I'll explain it.
Based on the sheer number of times you've repeated "blind abx test," I humbly think that you've been dieing for the opportunity to strut your stuff (or paste your copy) :rolleyes:

Be our guests...
 
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For the millionth time ... nobody, and i do mean nobody ... has ever suggested that all amps sound the same! Suggesting that "all amps sound the same" is a hypothesis that would be positively trivial to disprove.

Suggesting that one side of the "debate" ... for lack of a better word ... "believes" all "amps to sound the same" is wrong on at least two levels:

- it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of one side's position
- it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific method, to suggest that both sides rely on a "belief" system

Let's try it this way :

Of course amplifiers sound different! But we know the short list of reasons why.

If you "believe" ... and i'll use that term very accurately ... that the short list is inadequate, there's one very clear way to validate your belief: Get two amps, make sure the items on the short list are the same (meaning, sonically indistinguishable), and demonstrate a statistically-significant result that a difference is still heard.

Why is that so confusing?
 

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werewolf said:
For the millionth time ... nobody, and i do mean nobody ... has ever suggested that all amps sound the same! Suggesting that "all amps sound the same" is a hypothesis that would be positively trivial to disprove.

Suggesting that one side of the "debate" ... for lack of a better word ... "believes" all "amps to sound the same" is wrong on at least two levels:

- it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of one side's position
- it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific method, to suggest that both sides rely on a "belief" system

Let's try it this way :

Of course amplifiers sound different! But we know the short list of reasons why.

If you "believe" ... and i'll use that term very accurately ... that the short list is inadequate, there's one very clear way to validate your belief: Get two amps, make sure the items on the short list are the same (meaning, sonically indistinguishable), and demonstrate a statistically-significant result that a difference is still heard.

Why is that so confusing?

I think this should be a pop up window in EVERY car audio forum...;)
It gets tiring for the same old crap going around and around, and around..
 

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Did I miss it, or did this post get edited from being about the new amps to the old ones?
 
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