DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,677 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve noticed that these decks have quite a bit of features


How do they work and are they reliable

What do you hate about them? How is the digital outputs ? Can you use coax and toslink simultaneously?

Does eq work over spdif?

What about it’s surround? And enhancers? Cool or dumb ?


Can you install jriver or Hq player and convolve audio?

Do the SWC work decent ? Resistive only? Or CAN?

I want to know what you guys think are they worth a damn? What benefits would I get if I got one for my deck already has an optical?

Does volume work over optical? And what is the optical speed? 96k?

I like the way they look what I would really want is the 30 bands of equalizer to work over digital output….


Thanks in advance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
I haven't fitted mine yet, but a consideration is that they don't really have a volume control - they do, but it's not straightforward. I have a helix conductor, and if you have SWC you might be happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,677 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I haven't fitted mine yet, but a consideration is that they don't really have a volume control - they do, but it's not straightforward. I have a helix conductor, and if you have SWC you might be happy.
The one I’m lookin at has a knob… for Honda Fit

The back looks sane across all decks … it’s the same for all models ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,749 Posts
I’ve noticed that these decks have quite a bit of features


How do they work and are they reliable

What do you hate about them? How is the digital outputs ? Can you use coax and toslink simultaneously?

Does eq work over spdif?

What about it’s surround? And enhancers? Cool or dumb ?


Can you install jriver or Hq player and convolve audio?

Do the SWC work decent ? Resistive only? Or CAN?

I want to know what you guys think are they worth a damn? What benefits would I get if I got one for my deck already has an optical?

Does volume work over optical? And what is the optical speed? 96k?

I like the way they look what I would really want is the 30 bands of equalizer to work over digital output….


Thanks in advance
I bought the one specifically for VW, it came with a harness all done, plug and play. Steering wheel controls work perfectly, and it has a knob (they had 2 VW models, the one with a slightly bigger screen didn't have physical knobs/buttons).

You can install anything on it that you can install on an android phone. I don't use the sim card, so I park close to the house and connect to wifi, then I can download apps, videos, etc.

Volume works perfectly fine over digital coax.

EQ works over digital coax. Since the coax cable outputs the front stereo signal, the OEM rear speaker still work, and I've added a bunch of delay to them through the head unit.

I have not done any EQ tuning yet, I wiped the tune clean and started fresh when I installed it, and haven't hooked up a microphone yet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
44 Posts
The Joying units use Rohm BU32107 DSP/DAC. This is taking the i2s data directly from the android system.

This is a full featured DSP with 24 or 16 bit in (can accept higher sample rates), but only 48KHz output.

From looking at their drivers, I think they are downmixing to 16 bit in the OS. I cannot confirm that, as it is possible to output 24 bit to the DSP they are using. The DSP handles everything from taking the 2 channel stereo info to make it "ready" for car audio. This includes, delay, HPF/LPP, 4 channel out, etc.

They use the "front" as the SPDIF output. SNR is >100dB, and to be honest, you're not going to see much higher than 100 out of any consumer gear, even in car. 16b is 96dB range, while 24b is 132dB.

The Rohm BU32107 does not commit to what the DSP core is, but based on their settings, it appears to be at least a 24 bit DSP. Could be either 24b or 32b core.

I tried the optical output. I do not know if it is at 16 or 24 bit as MiniDSP does not report, and I have not tried to find out with other hardware. I have not tried to do a register dump of the DSP to see how they configured it.

What I do know: They're using the Rohm BU32107 for volume control as well as all DSP functions. There is no analog in their signal path if you use Optical output. The DSP / EQ core can handle front and rear with separate EQs. This is how they claim 32 band, as they have 16 bands (linked) for front and 16 bands (linked) for rear.

They also have a "bass boost" function, which looks like a shelf boost that can be used.

The HPF for the "front" setting looks like it never turns off from the settings, however, there is no 20Hz HPF, min is 25. If you set 20Hz, there is no filter possible, and it appears bypassed. (Front is used for Optical output)

The only way you're going to get "pure" high res is to use your own tablet and use an external DAC like the FIIO K3, which has SPDIF output. If you want something fully featured for car audio, the Joying "works", but you may need to look into the datasheets to figure out what's going on.

If you wanted to hack, there are other outputs that could be wired in that bypass the volume control blocks, but these also may require register settings, which one would need to find a way to get into the I2C bus to program.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,677 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Joying units use Rohm BU32107 DSP/DAC. This is taking the i2s data directly from the android system.

This is a full featured DSP with 24 or 16 bit in (can accept higher sample rates), but only 48KHz output.

From looking at their drivers, I think they are downmixing to 16 bit in the OS. I cannot confirm that, as it is possible to output 24 bit to the DSP they are using. The DSP handles everything from taking the 2 channel stereo info to make it "ready" for car audio. This includes, delay, HPF/LPP, 4 channel out, etc.

They use the "front" as the SPDIF output. SNR is >100dB, and to be honest, you're not going to see much higher than 100 out of any consumer gear, even in car. 16b is 96dB range, while 24b is 132dB.

The Rohm BU32107 does not commit to what the DSP core is, but based on their settings, it appears to be at least a 24 bit DSP. Could be either 24b or 32b core.

I tried the optical output. I do not know if it is at 16 or 24 bit as MiniDSP does not report, and I have not tried to find out with other hardware. I have not tried to do a register dump of the DSP to see how they configured it.

What I do know: They're using the Rohm BU32107 for volume control as well as all DSP functions. There is no analog in their signal path if you use Optical output. The DSP / EQ core can handle front and rear with separate EQs. This is how they claim 32 band, as they have 16 bands (linked) for front and 16 bands (linked) for rear.

They also have a "bass boost" function, which looks like a shelf boost that can be used.

The HPF for the "front" setting looks like it never turns off from the settings, however, there is no 20Hz HPF, min is 25. If you set 20Hz, there is no filter possible, and it appears bypassed. (Front is used for Optical output)

The only way you're going to get "pure" high res is to use your own tablet and use an external DAC like the FIIO K3, which has SPDIF output. If you want something fully featured for car audio, the Joying "works", but you may need to look into the datasheets to figure out what's going on.

If you wanted to hack, there are other outputs that could be wired in that bypass the volume control blocks, but these also may require register settings, which one would need to find a way to get into the I2C bus to program.

Excellent info! Thank you !

Can you tap the i2s and mclk?
 

·
Registered
2008 VW passat/ Arc Moto components front and rear/ Arc XDI 1200.6. DSP TBD
Joined
·
156 Posts
I'm also looking into one of these units. The 11.6 Iooks great. I've read that they're the better of the Chinese brands and seem to have a good customer service reputation as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
44 Posts
Excellent info! Thank you !

Can you tap the i2s and mclk?
Excellent info! Thank you !

Can you tap the i2s and mclk?
Not going to. Don't have time. I was mainly mucking around with the software side, see if I could do some interesting hacks.

The biggest benefit of 24 bit audio is headroom for mixing / EQ / etc. Is great reason that mixing/recording has extra resolution. On playback, >96dB SnR isn't exactly realistic in real world environment, so playback at 16 bit isn't as much of an issue. >48KHz would be "nice", but given we're pretty far from Nyquist, not much impact.

Sadly, to get those higher bitrates, getting a chassis that "fits" a car along with the other features just isn't realistic. The only car stuff I've seen that supposedly does full 24b/96k is analog output only. And given that, one would have a hard time verifying they actually are full 24 bit down to the D/A.

The Joying isn't bad, far better than I expected. Would be nice if they did some software changes to ensure full 24b/96k down to the D/A, but given these units are all made by FYT, and the drivers/software stack can use cheaper DAC/EQ chips, not surprising they didn't prioritize that. Also, would be nice if they used a DSP that could go past 48KHz, but these are very low cost builds, so not surprising they'd not spend the money on a more expensive DSP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,677 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Not going to. Don't have time. I was mainly mucking around with the software side, see if I could do some interesting hacks.

The biggest benefit of 24 bit audio is headroom for mixing / EQ / etc. Is great reason that mixing/recording has extra resolution. On playback, >96dB SnR isn't exactly realistic in real world environment, so playback at 16 bit isn't as much of an issue. >48KHz would be "nice", but given we're pretty far from Nyquist, not much impact.

Sadly, to get those higher bitrates, getting a chassis that "fits" a car along with the other features just isn't realistic. The only car stuff I've seen that supposedly does full 24b/96k is analog output only. And given that, one would have a hard time verifying they actually are full 24 bit down to the D/A.

The Joying isn't bad, far better than I expected. Would be nice if they did some software changes to ensure full 24b/96k down to the D/A, but given these units are all made by FYT, and the drivers/software stack can use cheaper DAC/EQ chips, not surprising they didn't prioritize that. Also, would be nice if they used a DSP that could go past 48KHz, but these are very low cost builds, so not surprising they'd not spend the money on a more expensive DSP.
Again, thank you!

Pretty much exactly info I was hoping for
Thank you.
 

·
Registered
2008 VW passat/ Arc Moto components front and rear/ Arc XDI 1200.6. DSP TBD
Joined
·
156 Posts

This is the one I'll probably end up ordering. Comes with the canbus harness. Only thing I'm not super excited about is a lack of a volume knob.
Now I just need to find a better backup camera to replace the 64p stock camera.
 

·
Premium Member
2006 Hyundai Sonata V6
Joined
·
491 Posts
Curious if anyone using a Joying (or similar) can verify what the limits are for number of files/folders are supported via USB. My Stinger Heigh10 has what appears to be a functionally limitless number, but lots of head units have pretty low limits on these capabilities. From what I've seen, it appears that most HUs that support NTFS also support the file number limitation of NTFS, which is 4,294,967,295 (!) files per disk. This may also be true of exFAT, which I think has far fewer files supported than NTFS, but still is functionally unlimited, as that number is in the millions.

I have 57K+ (and growing) files in 4,400+ folders. Mostly FLAC and taking up 1.3TB on a 2TB SATA SSD in a USB 3.0 enclosure, so this is of utmost importance to me.

Good luck with whatever you go with, Kpierce1986. I'd be willing to drive from Long Beach to Ontario to test the file limitations using my drive, if you'd like. Not looking to ditch my Stinger, but always good to gain info on equipment, particularly if my HU croaks or gets stolen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
16b is 96dB range, while 24b is 132dB.
That of course assumes that there's something useful down in the low bits. One reason why early 80's CDs have the characteristic chunky sound that they do is that although the DACs of the era could easily produce a real 16 bits of signal, the early ADCs were only good to around 12-13 bits - the low bits were basically just noise. For music that was recorded onto analog masters later releases of the music would help matters when they re-digitized the audio; but for songs that were recorded directly to digital on early gear, well - there's nothing there to recover.

For editing and mixdown, the ideal format is floating point; and 32 bits gives a good compromise between precision and data size (you get 24 bits of significand precision, the rest is the exponent and sign bit). If you end up exceeding the +- 1.0 range of standard 32 bit floating point audio, bits off the bottom end are dropped in order to represent the value - it doesn't clip the way an integer format would. Also, IEEE 754 single-precision 32 bits is one of the floating point formats supported by common computer hardware; making DSP operations on it much faster on x86 and higher-end ARM CPUs.

For typical car audio applications; I probably wouldn't worry too much about the source unit possibly running in 16 bit; especially if you listen while the engine is running (or if you drive electric, while in motion).



Re: file limits. Well, it's Android, so it's got a Linux kernel... I believe that there may be some compile-time options to set that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been left at whatever default value the kernel ships with...

As I stream Apple Lossless, I'm afraid that I don't have a SD card with a bazillion files on it to test the limits with...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,677 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Although I loved the 90s recordings
Way better sq and if it was on cd , then it was a big name as burners weren’t a thing ,

Big name means a master in the booth and in mix down and production.

Most cds bought and made in the 90s had actual dynamics in the recording and you could have 20db swings in output dynamics audible

Now days everyone is just loud and small files (although getting better) any chump off the streeet with a daw is now on all the major platforms….

We’re lucky to see 5db of dynamic range in most of the stuff I listen to

Although I like all the artists can easily get out and heard …..

I Still preffered a 90s ADD or DDD mix on CD 16/44 by Sony ,BMG, ultra, he’ll any big sound houses…. sounded absolutely stellar….. I beg to argue most of the problems today is poor recording technique.

The theoretical 96db of dynamic range was plentiful back then….. here we are fighting for more and can’t get our playback up to par first.

And I agree .bin is superior
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
I have the 11.6" single din version. You'll want to change the factory UI as its not that great but its really easy. You just download an app on the device and it changes over. I forget the name of the app but i could find out if you wanted. No jailbreaking or anything fancy.

I run volume via optical via steering wheeling controls. Works great.

Only gripe would be the GPS sensor needs a pretty particular area in the car. I have it down low in the dash and sometimes it finds gps location, sometimes not. So youll have to test locations.

The dash cam works great and is always recording., i assume the rear back up camera works well too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I'm running AGAMA - I tried several other car launchers; but they didn't want to recognize the BT Music app (it's actually a sub-activity in the main Bluetooth app .apk, and the BT Music icon is an activity shortcut). AGAMA handles launching it just fine.

Also - I haven't found a way to change the color scheme of Google Maps; so for right now I'm primarily using OsmAnd instead. I'll have to monkey about with some of the other options one of these days...
 
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top