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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I remember years ago this was very common and it was prefered over a pillar placements, why is it not as common anymore? Is it because more dsp and time alignment makes it easier to correct plds instead of equal placement? Im actually thinking about doing this in my car just debating whether pillars or this. Im looking at getting the focal 165f3 set so 3 way but i will run midbass on its own channel in door and tweeters and mids in kicks using crozlssover as i only have 4 channels for front. Ive got a dsp aswel.
 

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There's several things that have affected that application. As you stated, lower cost & easily attainable DSP is a major one. Another is the introduction of small cone drivers that wasn't available before. Smaller vehicles that don't have extra room in the footwells. Plus a few other things... personally, I would like to try it for myself, but the footwell issue is a big hindrance. Pillars & dash do sound good if you can overcome width limitations. Other than that idk... I don't think you're the only one though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I cant remember who said it but i was reading an old thread on here and the guy was talking about how t/a was a band aid and that a car with proper kicks is the only way to have a proper 2 seat stage. The legs thing is what im not sure about, i understand in competitioncars the seats are way back so they dont change sound but duno as a daily.
 

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If it was the same thread by a extremely knowledgeable former member (werewolf/Lycan, one & the same?), then I would take his word as gospel pretty much. That same thread also talked a bit about the current trend of pillars as well. Can't remember the thread, but it was very deep though it made a lot of sense. Read it several times.
 

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I still believe it takes certain vehicles to pull it off without a heavy hand on the DSP. Cars that have fairly low slung seats like Hondas or any other vehicle where legroom is a plus, seating position is low and the kicks are out of the way. Vehicles like small & fairly narrow cabin suvs & trucks present a problem due to seat height and forward seating. The kicks in a 1st gen S10 have little room without cutting metal. You're forward enough to where the mids would have to be placed low in the kicks to keep a decent line of sight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Something i dont quite get, im re reading that old thread the one ndm linked, and somebody is talking about legs blocking the sound and saying this can be overcome quite effectively via eq? How does that work?
 

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I am a huge proponent of kick panel installs. There are some reasons they are not as popular anymore. One is that fact that many new cars have little actual space in the kicks, and the space that is there is usually occupied by wiring and numerous electronic boxes. Another is that modern cars have very deep dashes, windshields that stretch further out onto the nose of the car, and large sail panels, all of which facilitate placement of drivers. But the main culprit is near ubiquitous DSP with the addition of multiple inexpensive amp channels.

However, I personally have issues with all the phantom sources typical of dash and pillar installs. They sound good initially, but my ears can't handle the chaos even when things measure well. With kick panels, I can usually get good tonality and imaging with angle and placement alone. I also find that the individual drivers blend and "disappear" much better with kicks.

These things are very car dependent though. In my BMW E34, I literally had 3-ways in the kicks, with 8" midbass, with all acoustic centers aligned by placement and angle of the individual drivers alone.

In my current project, the midbass is in the doors with mids in the kicks. But the mids will reach fairly high in freq. I have some small AMT that I may use for the last 1 to 1.5 octaves at the corner of the dash. But the AMT might end up in the kicks (just depends). Although this car is not as blessed as the E34, I am pretty tall, and I naturally sit pretty far back, which makes a difference. Because of this, I have also found that high frequency response is not blocked too severely by my legs. Driver placement is no where near my feet in a way that will block anything.
 
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