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Discussion Starter #1
Welcome all to a new build. This time around I will be ruining a perfectly fine 1993 Mercedes Benz 300TE wagon. She's got 280k miles on the clock (that's 448,000 kilometers for your weirdos). I've had the car for going on a year now and the stereo has never worked. I'm tired of driving around with headphones plus I'm sitting on all this gear anyway, so it's time to stop being lazy.


My old build was (lost due to rust):
The '84 BMW E28 Lightweight System w/ 15" IB

I loved my old build. I've learned so much, met some awesome people at two NCSQ events I was fortunate to attend, sat in some awesome sound demos, and have also furthered my personal home audio journey quite a bit in the last few years.
I have to admit that the system in the beemer never quite sounded good. For the new build I want more midbass.





















 

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Wow!

That's a very clean example W124 wago. A car that will last forever and two years beyond that if kept after.

Can't wait to see some progress.
 

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Man, that thing is beautiful! If maintained properly it will run a half a million miles...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks all! I got super blessed with this ride.

It looks like you could fit a whole sheet of MDF in the back of that thing up to the front seats. What are the real dimensions?
Not quite 4' between wheel wells, about 7' to the front seats. Tons of space.
Btw, which full rangers were you running in the Escape again? Sounded so good.
 

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Not quite 4' between wheel wells, about 7' to the front seats. Tons of space.
Btw, which full rangers were you running in the Escape again? Sounded so good.
Thanks. I was running the Tectonic 2" full range drivers linked here
https://www.parts-express.com/tectonic-tebm35c10-4-bmr-2-full-range-speaker-4-ohm--297-216

It's slightly possible you heard them with the Tang Band W2 but the 1811s that i had are no longer available. https://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w2-1811s-2-neodymium-poly-full-range-driver--264-886

I liked the Tectonics far better though.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Quick update:
Confirmed that the door pods hold 6.5" mids.
I'm still leaning towards dual 12" B&C drivers as midbass and subs.
The dash holds up to 4.5"

Since I'd like very powerful midbass, I'm thinking about letting the dual 12s (right behind the front seats) play as high as 250 hz or so. My amp's 5th channel is mono though.
If I did that, the 6.5" door mids don't need to play low at all, only about 250 hz and up.



My headunit's DSP is the limiting factor here.
In network mode, I can only high-pass the front dash speakers as low as 1.6k and the door mids can't low-pass any lower than 1.25k



The NVX JAD900.5 also does have some filters though, and I could also run the deh80-prs in standard mode while retaining time-alignment. Standard mode lets the user high- and low-pass the speakers a little differently.

I remembered that I do have some 6.5" Infinity Kappas, the carbon ones. They sound decent enough to give them a try before actually spending money on different mids.
If the door mids are band-passed from, say 300 hz to 1.25k, that leaves the dash speakers to pick up from 1.6k or so and up.
At that point, the dash speaker options are:

-NVX XSPTW tweeters (SB29) from 1.8 or 2.0k and up
-a Vifa 4" coaxial with passive crossover
-a decent 3" full ranger
-a decent 2" full ranger

Vifa 4" coax (Thanks to Chithead!):



NVX tweetersaurusrex (SB29):



I want to try the NVX tweeters first, because they're so awesome, flat and dynamic. Another pro would be simiplicity, not having to use a passive crossover at all.
BUT If I did the Vifa 4" coaxes, I could high pass them a lot lower than the NVX tweets, helping elevate the soundstage up front. Designing the passive crossover for the coaxes is easy and I've got all the components on hands. I would, however, lose control over the two individual drivers as far as level, xo point, eq. All that would have to be sorted via passive components and may require a bunch of back and forth until it sound right in the car.
Food for thought.
Btw just baked some thick cut, smoked bacon. Kraut likes his meat (no homo) lol

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Can you cut the tweeter wires on the coax Vifas and run them active?
Yes, in fact they have no xo at all, just two sets of wires.
However, my deck can only run an active 3 way including sub, so if I ran the coax like that I can't use 6.5" door speakers anymore, I'd lose time-alignment if I did.
Since time-alignment is really what pulls it all together and makes the sundstage coherent, I'm not willing to sacrifice that. Also, the coax mid and tweeter are already almost time-aligned, so running them active would be a waste.
 

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Yes, in fact they have no xo at all, just two sets of wires.

However, my deck can only run an active 3 way including sub, so if I ran the coax like that I can't use 6.5" door speakers anymore, I'd lose time-alignment if I did.

Since time-alignment is really what pulls it all together and makes the sundstage coherent, I'm not willing to sacrifice that. Also, the coax mid and tweeter are already almost time-aligned, so running them active would be a waste.


Apologies - get you now :)

Get a Helix DSP - you know you want to!!

Being sensible you could do a passive setup but if active you would get the benefit of playing with crossover frequency and adjustable level matching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I would run the 12" subs, 6.5" mids you have and the NVX tweets. Do time alignment correctly and your stage height will be fine. If you want powerful MIDBASS cut the high efficiency subs you plan on using at 125hz. Make sure the 6.5's have a good home in a well deadened door. Trust me, there's no good reason to cross any decent car audio 6.5" above 80hz most of the time. 125hz would just help make sure you don't launch them when turning it up to ELEVEN and still sound OK even if the stage is pulled to the back a little.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Where are you planning on having 12" subs/midbasses? Which models?
Subs are going right behind front seats in the 2nd row foot wells.
Using the B&C 12tbx100 pair that I've got. They're efficient PA midbass, hoping that with cabin gain they'll have enough bottom end extension that I won't need subs.
The idea is to have them play high, so just once I can has guud midbass.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I would run the 12" subs, 6.5" mids you have and the NVX tweets. Do time alignment correctly and your stage height will be fine. If you want powerful MIDBASS cut the high efficiency subs you plan on using at 125hz. Make sure the 6.5's have a good home in a well deadened door. Trust me, there's no good reason to cross any decent car audio 6.5" above 80hz most of the time. 125hz would just help make sure you don't launch them when turning it up to ELEVEN and still sound OK even if the stage is pulled to the back a little.
This seems like the path of least resistance.
Once everything's hooked up and I'm tuning, I can always see what crossover point between 100 hz to 250 hz suits both the 12s and the 6.5s the best.
Obviously, the 12s will have significantly more midbass than the 6.5s, but the higher I play the 12s (in mono btw), the more they'll pull the soundstage towards the rear.
 

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100-125 is as high as I'd cross the 12's especially being in mono. The 6.5's should hammer pretty good down to 80hz if needed in a well prepped door.
 
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