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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This may not even exist....but i've been surprised before with what some of you guys come up with, so here goes

I'm trying to keep my budget $300 and under
I need 6 in and at least 6 out (front, rear, sub)
I dont really want a bass knob
I'd prefer it to have an app that I can configure on my phone. If I have to have a laptop, its not a deal breaker, but an app is preferred.
I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff as usual....But i'll start with that....go...
 

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Dayton sounds likely what you would need, or to look for a used DSP. There's always the offshore brand units on Ebay or whatever but roll the dice on those I would suspect.
 

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how do you plan to do front rear and sub with only 6 out? Are going full passive?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
how do you plan to do front rear and sub with only 6 out? Are going full passive?
Front is two channels, rear is two channels and sub is two channels....so 6 channel in? 6 channels out?
Yea I have dash speakers but those are passively crossed over and the power is from the headunit. The 4 mid basses (2 front, 2 rear) will be in the front and read channels and the sub, on the sub channels. well thats what I'm looking for but Ive seen no cheaper units setup like this.
 

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Front is two channels, rear is two channels and sub is two channels....so 6 channel in? 6 channels out?
Yea I have dash speakers but those are passively crossed over and the power is from the headunit. The 4 mid basses (2 front, 2 rear) will be in the front and read channels and the sub, on the sub channels. well thats what I'm looking for but Ive seen no cheaper units setup like this.
If you are staying passive, i see no real reason for a DSP. But i don't want this thread to go to 200+ replies like your other one. Just buy a minidsp for now its the cheapest once you can buy and will let you get your feet wet i guess. But honestly i think you are not ready, especially if you plan on putting 4 midbass driver on 2 channels, and ignoring your dash speakers all together. Sounds like a train wreck tbh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you are staying passive, i see no real reason for a DSP. But i don't want this thread to go to 200+ replies like your other one. Just buy a minidsp for now its the cheapest once you can buy and will let you get your feet wet i guess. But honestly i think you are not ready, especially if you plan on putting 4 midbass driver on 2 channels, and ignoring your dash speakers all together. Sounds like a train wreck tbh.
I think you are misunderstanding me.
I have a 4 channel (4x100). Each channel drives one silverflute 6.5. Then I have 4 channels on my headunit. (4x15w). The headunit has passive crossovers inline with some 2” whispers in the dash, and a set of Dayton air motion tweets. Yep channels are running those mid ranges and tweets. Then I have a pair of Dayton air motion tweets on the rear head unit power channels, in the rear with the silverflutes.
then I have a separate punch 750 sub amp. The dsp would be used only for the four channels of the silverflutes AND for the sub amp. That’s why I need 6 channel in and six channel out. My head unit has front/rear/sub rca outs and I want to retain that control (fader, individual volume level of each speaker, and the sub control). I don’t want multiple paths of changing settings. Like I want to install the dsp, adjust it to the frequencies that sound best, set it and forget it. Then if any minor tweaking needs to be done, the headunit will be what I use.
Passive crossovers ARE ONLY ON the headunit powered dash speakers. I MAY put a small four channel on the dash speakers and tweets so I can use the dsp if it has enough outputs.
 

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I think you are misunderstanding me.
I have a 4 channel (4x100). Each channel drives one silverflute 6.5. Then I have 4 channels on my headunit. (4x15w). The headunit has passive crossovers inline with some 2” whispers in the dash, and a set of Dayton air motion tweets. Yep channels are running those mid ranges and tweets. Then I have a pair of Dayton air motion tweets on the rear head unit power channels, in the rear with the silverflutes.
then I have a separate punch 750 sub amp. The dsp would be used only for the four channels of the silverflutes AND for the sub amp. That’s why I need 6 channel in and six channel out. My head unit has front/rear/sub rca outs and I want to retain that control (fader, individual volume level of each speaker, and the sub control). I don’t want multiple paths of changing settings. Like I want to install the dsp, adjust it to the frequencies that sound best, set it and forget it. Then if any minor tweaking needs to be done, the headunit will be what I use.
Passive crossovers ARE ONLY ON the headunit powered dash speakers. I MAY put a small four channel on the dash speakers and tweets so I can use the dsp if it has enough outputs.
I think you are misunderstanding me.
I have a 4 channel (4x100). Each channel drives one silverflute 6.5. Then I have 4 channels on my headunit. (4x15w). The headunit has passive crossovers inline with some 2” whispers in the dash, and a set of Dayton air motion tweets. Yep channels are running those mid ranges and tweets. Then I have a pair of Dayton air motion tweets on the rear head unit power channels, in the rear with the silverflutes.
then I have a separate punch 750 sub amp. The dsp would be used only for the four channels of the silverflutes AND for the sub amp. That’s why I need 6 channel in and six channel out. My head unit has front/rear/sub rca outs and I want to retain that control (fader, individual volume level of each speaker, and the sub control). I don’t want multiple paths of changing settings. Like I want to install the dsp, adjust it to the frequencies that sound best, set it and forget it. Then if any minor tweaking needs to be done, the headunit will be what I use.
Passive crossovers ARE ONLY ON the headunit powered dash speakers. I MAY put a small four channel on the dash speakers and tweets so I can use the dsp if it has enough outputs.
I think i will stand pat with my trainwreck comment. You cannot DSP your heat unit powered speakers. So you have 4 mid bass drivers and a sub getting external power. Those can be DSP'd....but why bother with only have the system? You need to do a lot more reading before you buy any more gear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think i will stand pat with my trainwreck comment. You cannot DSP your heat unit powered speakers. So you have 4 mid bass drivers and a sub getting external power. Those can be DSP'd....but why bother with only have the system? You need to do a lot more reading before you buy any more gear.
I never said anything about using the dsp on my head unit speakers UNTIL I put them on a amp. I wrote that in my reply. Until I get an amp on those, they will remain on the passive crossovers. Not sure how you how it’s a train wreck when I never said I’m using the dsp on them while using headunit power. I know it doesn’t work that way lol.

maybe reread it or read the whole thing or at least read the last sentence at least.
 

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I never said anything about using the dsp on my head unit speakers UNTIL I put them on a amp. I wrote that in my reply. Until I get an amp on those, they will remain on the passive crossovers. Not sure how you how it’s a train wreck when I never said I’m using the dsp on them while using headunit power. I know it doesn’t work that way lol.

maybe reread it or read the whole thing or at least read the last sentence at least.
so what are you going to use the 6 output channels on? And more important what speakers will still play only not off the DSP? Unless all speakers are running on the dsp i would call it a train wreck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
so what are you going to use the 6 output channels on? And more important what speakers will still play only not off the DSP? Unless all speakers are running on the dsp i would call it a train wreck.
If you read my posts I answered that already. Probably more than once. Are you trying to see how many times I’ll answer the same question? Lol

I’ll say it again. Front is two channels, right? Rear is two channels, right? And sub is two channels, right? (Actually it mono but I’m saying that for simplicity). So if my math is correct, that would be 6 channels, no?
I can break that down even further if you like.
Running on punch 4x100 amp
front right- channel 1 silverflute 6.5
Front left- channel 2 silverflute 6.5
Rear right- channel 3 silverflute 6.5
Rear left - channel 4 silverflute 6.5
Running on punch 750
Sub right - channel 5 (8” sub)
Sub left - channel 6 (8” sub)

then FOR NOW I’ll leave it a train wreck and keep the aura sound whispers and Dayton tweets on the passive crossovers ON HEADUNIT POWER NOT ON THE DSP. When the non unlimited budget allows, I’ll get a small low power amp for the dash speakers SO THEN I can untrainwreck it and put them on the dsp.
This isn’t a competition car. I’m not trying to impress anyone. I just want decent sound and I’m not interested in spending a bunch of money doing it. The car is more of a race car than a car stereo project. It’s not a daily driver. It’s a weekend car. I’m not wrapped up in this hobby enough to spend 5-6-7 thousand dollars on a stereo. Some of you have more money in your dsp than I have in my whole system. I’ve said it in another thread, before I’d drop a bunch of cash on stereo items, I’d rather put that money towards a bigger turbo, new drag tires, drivetrain parts etc. that’s where my priorities lie in this car.
 

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If you read my posts I answered that already. Probably more than once. Are you trying to see how many times I’ll answer the same question? Lol

I’ll say it again. Front is two channels, right? Rear is two channels, right? And sub is two channels, right? (Actually it mono but I’m saying that for simplicity). So if my math is correct, that would be 6 channels, no?
I can break that down even further if you like.
Running on punch 4x100 amp
front right- channel 1 silverflute 6.5
Front left- channel 2 silverflute 6.5
Rear right- channel 3 silverflute 6.5
Rear left - channel 4 silverflute 6.5
Running on punch 750
Sub right - channel 5 (8” sub)
Sub left - channel 6 (8” sub)

then FOR NOW I’ll leave it a train wreck and keep the aura sound whispers and Dayton tweets on the passive crossovers ON HEADUNIT POWER NOT ON THE DSP. When the non unlimited budget allows, I’ll get a small low power amp for the dash speakers SO THEN I can untrainwreck it and put them on the dsp.
This isn’t a competition car. I’m not trying to impress anyone. I just want decent sound and I’m not interested in spending a bunch of money doing it. The car is more of a race car than a car stereo project. It’s not a daily driver. It’s a weekend car. I’m not wrapped up in this hobby enough to spend 5-6-7 thousand dollars on a stereo. Some of you have more money in your dsp than I have in my whole system. I’ve said it in another thread, before I’d drop a bunch of cash on stereo items, I’d rather put that money towards a bigger turbo, new drag tires, drivetrain parts etc. that’s where my priorities lie in this car.
So if you eventually need 10 channels output, and you are on a budget why waste money on a 6 channel DSP that is only going to make your system worse? Or at best it will be a push. IOW, you don't need a DSP yet. Which is what i said in my first post. I see how your threads build up to 200+ posts now. LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So if you eventually need 10 channels output, and you are on a budget why waste money on a 6 channel DSP that is only going to make your system worse? Or at best it will be a push. IOW, you don't need a DSP yet. Which is what i said in my first post. I see how your threads build up to 200+ posts now. LOL.
Most dsp’s I see if they have 6 channel input, they don’t have just 6 out. Usually have 8 or 10. Am I right?
so now I don’t need a dsp? Lol.
so I posted a thread on how to cut a peak frequency from my subs. First response from Andy at audiofrog said I need a dsp. So now I dont? Noted.
You wanna know why my threads get to be so long? I’ll tell you. I’ll post what I’m looking for. Hoping to get a simple few suggestions. Then I get someone trying to push me this way, that way or some other way. Then they don’t read my complete posts. Prime example above. I was clear in why I needed 6 channels. I thought I was detailed enough, but if you don’t read everything I wrote and skim what I wrote then say I’m working with a train wreck, then of course I’m going to ATTEMPT to explain myself again. Anyways. Whatever. I just wanted someone to maybe point me in a direction on an affordable unit that would do what I’m looking for. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

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If you read my posts I answered that already. Probably more than once. Are you trying to see how many times I’ll answer the same question? Lol

I’ll say it again. Front is two channels, right? Rear is two channels, right? And sub is two channels, right? (Actually it mono but I’m saying that for simplicity). So if my math is correct, that would be 6 channels, no?
I can break that down even further if you like.
Running on punch 4x100 amp
front right- channel 1 silverflute 6.5
Front left- channel 2 silverflute 6.5
Rear right- channel 3 silverflute 6.5
Rear left - channel 4 silverflute 6.5
Running on punch 750
Sub right - channel 5 (8” sub)
Sub left - channel 6 (8” sub)

then FOR NOW I’ll leave it a train wreck and keep the aura sound whispers and Dayton tweets on the passive crossovers ON HEADUNIT POWER NOT ON THE DSP. When the non unlimited budget allows, I’ll get a small low power amp for the dash speakers SO THEN I can untrainwreck it and put them on the dsp.
This isn’t a competition car. I’m not trying to impress anyone. I just want decent sound and I’m not interested in spending a bunch of money doing it. The car is more of a race car than a car stereo project. It’s not a daily driver. It’s a weekend car. I’m not wrapped up in this hobby enough to spend 5-6-7 thousand dollars on a stereo. Some of you have more money in your dsp than I have in my whole system. I’ve said it in another thread, before I’d drop a bunch of cash on stereo items, I’d rather put that money towards a bigger turbo, new drag tires, drivetrain parts etc. that’s where my priorities lie in this car.
I've obviously been active in your other thread.

What MiniSQ is trying to convey to you is, you don't buy a DSP to put one half of the system on the DSP, and not have the other half of the system on the same DSP as well. It's All or Nothing. Otherwise it is as he said...A TRAIN WRECK. Trying to achieve your "supposed" simplistic goals [email protected] just bit by bit over time will cost you more time, money, and frustration. Save yourself.

The little LF DSP that you purchased worked well on your Subwoofers and in your specific system to solve a specific, targeted problem, and the latency/delay induced by the subwoofer-only DSP unit is usually not as critical as it would be for your entire system, including the main speakers...i.e. anything ~100Hz and up.

# 1. A DSP adds latency to all of the output channels connected to it. Meaning all of the audio signals that pass through the DSP are delayed in time in a certain amount of ms compared to any signals that are going direct from the head unit to your Whispers & AMTs, etc.

Does your Pioneer DD Head Unit have Time Alignment (digital delay)? If so, you would have to figure out the exact latency of the new DSP in milliseconds and apply that same amount to all of your head unit powered speakers, then add more T/A on top of that on each driver or channel to achieve the proper time arrival of each dash driver/driver pair to your listening position in order to obtain proper timing and a solid center image. You'll then have to also properly Time Align all of the other speakers that are routed through the DSP unit accordingly. No simple task, and bound to be wrought with errors.

# 2. One of the most important features of a standalone DSP or DSP/amplifier unit is Independent Left & Right EQ for EACH Channel and speaker, as well as fine control of the amplitude level for each Channel/Speaker as well. Independent level control of each midrange, each tweeter is extremely important, and not having this independent Level, EQ & T/A adjustment of EVERY individual driver (inluding the midbass & subwoofers) is a severe limitation.

Your head unit does not allow for independent left and right EQ, nor fine adjustment of independent levels of each L&R channel, so the most important midrange drivers (along with tweeters) are a huge compromise.

And this doesn't even begin to touch on the importance of proper Crossover implementation between all of the drivers (speakers).

Therefore, miniSQ is correct in that setting up your system as you are proposing to would result in a complete TRAIN WRECK. And IMPO is not worth the effort for the struggle you would endure in trying to achieve the desired outcome...which is extremely unlikely. We have a saying here that is hard to learn or convey to most noobs... "BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE".

There are certain positive things that you can accomplish on a budget in car audio, and there are certain things that you cannot. Unfortunately, this is only realized after the fact through much trial & error and many wasted purchases.

There is a specific reason that I suggested the JBL DSP-4086 DSP/amplifier as the least expensive option to get you close to your goals. It would have enough processed & amplified output channels to get you near what you want. But you have to retain the passive X/Os on the Whisper/AMT pairs. And for this to work well, you'd need to keep the Whispers & AMTs in very close proximity to each other...ideally placed in a vertical orientation and touching frame to frame. You'd also want to have a L-Pad on each AMT to control their levels independently of the Whispers.

The Alpine PXE-0850S that I also mentioned in your other thread is closer to what you really need, but is way over your budget, AND it has a REMOTE KNOB/DISPLAY that would need to be mounted where it is accessible.
It has 6 inputs and 12 DSP Processed Output Channels, with 8 of those being amplified output channels.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Just about any DSP worth buying and using will have and require a Remote, either in the form of a knob, a knob + a few pushbuttons, or knob + Touchscreen display.


A used JL Audio TwK88 would be the next least expensive DSP to give you the 6 input channels and up to 8 processed output channels, but with no amplification. It also uses a dual concentric knob remote (DRC-200). It actually has 8 input channels + digital inputs.

The Dayton Audio DSP-408 is limited to 4 input channels (& 8 output channels), so it wouldn't allow you to retain the Subwoofer Level Control from your head unit. Again, you could buy a separate in-line RCA Remote knob for this, but you do not want to have one (supposedly no to place mount it). This DSP also does not have 4v+ RCA preamp outputs. I'm not a fan of it overall, but if that is the budget, it is about the only option...and again, limited to 4-in/8-out.

Good luck.

P.S. When you start a new thread, especially in regards to a DSP for your system, you need to do a better job in the first post of listing what equipment you already have, how it is connected, what you want to keep, and the goals or priorities for the system, along with all of your limitations.

For example, no one new to viewing this thread knew what source you are using, i.e. an OEM head unit, or aftermarket head unit...and if aftermarket, how many output channels and what built-in features it has (DSP, EQ, X/O, T/A, etc.), 2V RCA outputs or 4V-5V RCA outputs, etc?

Knowing what you have as a source is important considering if any OEM integration features will be needed (speaker-level inputs, OEM volume-dependent EQ that would need to be corrected, built-in T/A or All-Pass filters, etc.), and would help us to recommend what DSP would best compliment the source unit you have.
 

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So if you eventually need 10 channels output, and you are on a budget why waste money on a 6 channel DSP that is only going to make your system worse? Or at best it will be a push. IOW, you don't need a DSP yet. Which is what i said in my first post. I see how your threads build up to 200+ posts now. LOL.
It's like an onion....it has layers.
 

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I would recomend not getting the dayton dsp. I have had nothing but problems with mine. Everything from constant noise to certain channels forgetting their settings or not recognizing changes you made. I know some people have had luck but unforntiently I'm not one of the them.
 

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I was going to recommend the jbl as my well. It seems to be the perfect solution for you, except for no app.
 

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Most dsp’s I see if they have 6 channel input, they don’t have just 6 out. Usually have 8 or 10. Am I right?
so now I don’t need a dsp? Lol.
so I posted a thread on how to cut a peak frequency from my subs. First response from Andy at audiofrog said I need a dsp. So now I dont? Noted.
You wanna know why my threads get to be so long? I’ll tell you. I’ll post what I’m looking for. Hoping to get a simple few suggestions. Then I get someone trying to push me this way, that way or some other way. Then they don’t read my complete posts. Prime example above. I was clear in why I needed 6 channels. I thought I was detailed enough, but if you don’t read everything I wrote and skim what I wrote then say I’m working with a train wreck, then of course I’m going to ATTEMPT to explain myself again. Anyways. Whatever. I just wanted someone to maybe point me in a direction on an affordable unit that would do what I’m looking for. Nothing more, nothing less.
You seem to be a smug little sarcastic know it all, at least that is how you come off. I never said you don't need a dsp. I said you don't need a 6 out dsp to run half your system. It would be a bad idea, and you can choose to listen or you can ignore that fact. I really don't care.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You seem to be a smug little sarcastic know it all, at least that is how you come off. I never said you don't need a dsp. I said you don't need a 6 out dsp to run half your system. It would be a bad idea, and you can choose to listen or you can ignore that fact. I really don't care.
Thanks. Sarcastic, yes..definitely I am. Smug? Well that’s a first being called that so I’ll add it to my repertoire. Know it all, yea I’ve been called that a time or two. But let me say, I do know some $hit and if you knew me personally, I feel certain you’d agree and be ok with it. I don’t know everything and I’m not one of those peeps that you ask something and they will have an answer no matter if they know the answer or not. I have no problem saying “I don’t know” if in fact I don’t. Well let I don’t like not knowing, but I call a spade, a spade. So, while I may sound smug, sarcastic and a know it all....I don’t mean it in a sinister way. I’m just trying to get my point across. May not be the best way, I’ll admit. But I feel like if you say something that I disagree with, that I’d be doing myself a disservice by not explaining my side better. Like you say I’m messing with a train wreck. And I try to explain that I can add a dsp on the flutes and subs for now to fix those so they don’t have the upper frequency harshness that the flutes do and also fix my peak frequency issue with the sub. That would get me by for now till I can but another amp for the dash speakers. And if that sounds like trash, I don’t drive this car sometimes for weeks at a time. So it won’t make a difference I also like to build things as I go, in steps. Some like to do it all at once. I don’t have the attention span for that and sometimes the funds. Thanks for your input and your time you spent replying. And Apologies for my jacka$$ness. :)
 
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