DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

Which size is better for midbass

  • 6.5"

    Votes: 12 20.7%
  • 8"

    Votes: 42 72.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 6.9%
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I an just looking for some discussion on using 6.5" for midbass vs 8" for midbass. I have heard the output and impact of the 8" is better, plus it can go lower and bring the sub way forward, but is it too slow for the most dynamic midbass passages? Is a 6.5" better for speed? I am talking same manufactures (HAT, Dynaudio, Morel, Scanspeak....etc.) for both, only the size being different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,903 Posts
Is a 6.5" better for speed?
No.

You need to define "midbass"...as in which frequencies you're alluding to.

Generally the larger cone driver will have more impact due to possibly more xmax, cone area, power handling, etc...but this isn't a working rule in car audio I don't think.

Also, crossing the driver lower doesn't necessarily bring the sub up front. It's really vehicle-dependent as each vehicle has different transfer function.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
By midbass, I am referring to 250HZ and below.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,903 Posts
By midbass, I am referring to 250HZ and below.
And below to what? How high will your sub play? Some run their subwoofers up past 100hz and use high efficiency, low xmax, dedicated mids to provide "punch" and impact around 200 hz and then let their MR's take over from there on up to their tweeters. Some run 2-way systems up-front and run their mids from 50-5khz. All depends on install, budget, goals, etc.

It's hard to answer general questions with specific answers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
And below to what? How high will your sub play? Some run their subwoofers up past 100hz and use high efficiency, low xmax, dedicated mids to provide "punch" and impact around 200 hz and then let their MR's take over from there on up to their tweeters. Some run 2-way systems up-front and run their mids from 50-5khz. All depends on install, budget, goals, etc.

It's hard to answer general questions with specific answers.
Okay...I have Dynaudio MD130 Tweeters that will be mounted on axis with Dynaudio Esotar2 430 (3.5" midrange) off the a-pillar which can play down to 250hz. I currently have Dynaudio MW160's (6.5 or 7" depending on who you ask) midbass in the doors of a 1998 Pontiac Firebird in an enclosure with an AP mat on the back & just purchased MW182's to either resell or use. The 182's are 9.5" midbass woofers. I can either mount in the doors (with some work) or the kicks (also with some work). Just trying to decide which would be better to use. I currently run my 160's to about 65hz 18db and the subs come in from there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,526 Posts
I think the install location has everything to do with it. I ran a set of Kicker freeair 6.5's in my 4 runner doors first. I upgraded to a Morel CAW938's. Night and day diff but I also preped for them. I actually modeled the morels in bass box with the approx door size. By preping the doors I was able to achieve outstanding low end up front. Enought that would justify no subs in the back. So again I think it all has to do with the install and matching drivers to that install.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,903 Posts
Would you suggest door with ap mat or kick sealed?
Kicks for sure if you can. Greater path lengths, more on axis, more sturdy structure to build off of. Enclosure type depends on the driver response. You'll have to model them and see what you get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Kicks for sure if you can. Greater path lengths, more on axis, more sturdy structure to build off of. Enclosure type depends on the driver response. You'll have to model them and see what you get.
Now, the other thing is, I have tons of room behind my front fenders that I can build a sealed enclosure and vent the kick to...the only thing I am concerned with is the door puts the mid pretty far forward already and in that car the way you sit the mid fires over your legs and in front of the dash whereas the kick would be buried under the massive dash with legs more in the way. Should this even be a consideration or will the sealed enclosure output make up for the other items?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
There is a thread in here somewhere some is asking about running midbass in their rear doors. It has a nice reference to acoustic properties of midbass frequencies in the plane perpendicular to the listening position. If I caught the gist correctly you can install a midbass in any location on that plane without easily locating the speaker. The principle was used in the SpeakerWorks (sp) Buick Grand National which had 12s in the rear quarter panels. Look at their website.

Of course I may have completely missed the boat and I am too tired to search right now.

That being said I would do kicks if you have sufficient airspace.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
There is a thread in here somewhere some is asking about running midbass in their rear doors.
Search "Circle of Confusion" by Werewolf.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,903 Posts
Should this even be a consideration or will the sealed enclosure output make up for the other items?
More like how long the path lengths from 250 hz and down are. So at 4.5' and up you need something pretty massive or substantial to affect them in a negative way. If they can make it though/around a plastic door panel I think they'll make it around the underside of your dash, some carpet and your legs too. Just how I think of it. Search and read the above link by Werewolf for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
More like how long the path lengths from 250 hz and down are. So at 4.5' and up you need something pretty massive or substantial to affect them in a negative way. If they can make it though/around a plastic door panel I think they'll make it around the underside of your dash, some carpet and your legs too. Just how I think of it. Search and read the above link by Werewolf for sure.
Thanks for all the help/advice. I should have plenty of room in the kicks for airspace after I build the enclosure in the fender area. I think the MW182's would help to give me what I am looking for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
641 Posts
I'm curious, could someone please plot me the frequency response for both a Dynaudio MW162 and MW172? Or any other woofer family comparing a 6.5"/7" to an 8"/9" driver?

Ideally would like to see from 4000 hz down, but am most interested in 125-1500hz. The performance in that region I consider significant for "impact".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I'm curious, could someone please plot me the frequency response for both a Dynaudio MW162 and MW172? Or any other woofer family comparing a 6.5"/7" to an 8"/9" driver?

Ideally would like to see from 4000 hz down, but am most interested in 125-1500hz. The performance in that region I consider significant for "impact".
MW162



MW172



Straight from Dynaudio's Website
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,524 Posts
200Hz is localizable, but only to the extent determined by ITD. Therefore any point on a circle, whose plane is perpendicular to a line drawn through our ears, is indistinguishable from any other point on the circle.

In other words, you can chop off your outer ears for midbass frequencies. What, then, distinguishes "front" from "back"? Besides your eyes, of course ;) At 200Hz, you can only localize based on ITD. So ... if the driver location "behind" you generates the same ITD as the driver location "in front" of you, you have no hearing mechanism to distinguish one from the other.

In still other words, all places "behind" you are not equally good ... just as all places "in front" of you are not equally good. It is true that a midbass driver directly behind your head is indistinguishable from a midbass driver directly in front of your head ... but a midbass directly in front of your head is not optimum for stage width :(

All of these points become obvious by simply understanding ITD, and the simple geometry of a circle :)

In practise, the illusion is ruined by driver distortion, or panel vibrations, generating frequencies higher than you intend ...

edit : and this whole argument is completely separate from a "rear fill" discussion, which revolves around delayed, perhaps L-R processed, higher-bandwidth drivers located behind you in the ambient field.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/17874-dashboard-domes-rear-mounted-midbass-rear-fill.html
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top