[stochastic]

Looking for overall initial system design ideas:

I just got a new EV (Ioniq 5) and the stereo sucks. I love me some SQ, but can't change the head-unit/computer. The stock locations of bottom door and door a-sail will be the mounting locations so I'm limited to stock size replacement of 6.5" midbass and 1-1.5" tweeters.

I don't want a subwoofer, or if sub, I want a small pair of subs in the front that can be wired easily into the stock wiring. Mainly I don't need loud bass at all and do NOT want a power drain or extra weight in the car as EV range will suffer.

I'd love to keep everything under $2000.

I'm comfortable with reading thiele small specs and I care a lot about phase linearity through the crossover region. I know how to order from parts express or madisound to get esoteric drivers, so feel free to stray from car-audio-market brands.

Is there a speaker-level DSP possible?

Are t-class amps available in car audio?

Should I ignore dsp/amps and just slap some lower-grade dynaudio drivers in?

It does have a spot in the dash, behind the control screen, that a centre speaker can be added (comes with one on the higher trims). I've never worked with a centre speaker before, so please enlighten me if this would be a solid addition.

 

[OCD66]

VX400/4i

4-Channel Class D Full-Range Amplifier with Integrated DSP, 100 W x 4 @ 2 Ω / 75 W x 4 @ 4 Ω - 14.4V Designed to simplify great audio, every VXi amplifier combines our advanced NexD2™ switching amplifier technology with an integrated, full-featured digital signal processor. With our...

www.jlaudio.com

Easy integration and tuning.

VX400/4i

4-Channel Class D Full-Range Amplifier with Integrated DSP, 100 W x 4 @ 2 Ω / 75 W x 4 @ 4 Ω - 14.4V Designed to simplify great audio, every VXi amplifier combines our advanced NexD2™ switching amplifier technology with an integrated, full-featured digital signal processor. With our...

www.jlaudio.com

Fantastic Midbass for the money. The GB is better but the GS is very close.

GB15 1 1/2" (38 MM) AUDIOPHILE GRADE AUTOMOTIVE TWEETER - Audiofrog

Previous Next OVERVIEW FEATURES TECHNICAL DETAILS DOWNLOADS OVERVIEW Designed primarily for use with the GB60 as the ultimate 2-way system for kick panel or door installation, the GB15 1-1/2” tweeter provides low distortion and high frequency extension not common in other large tweeters. With...

www.audiofrog.com

Probably the best tweet if you're not going 3 way.

 

[Isaradia]

VX400/4i

4-Channel Class D Full-Range Amplifier with Integrated DSP, 100 W x 4 @ 2 Ω / 75 W x 4 @ 4 Ω - 14.4V Designed to simplify great audio, every VXi amplifier combines our advanced NexD2™ switching amplifier technology with an integrated, full-featured digital signal processor. With our...

www.jlaudio.com

Easy integration and tuning.

VX400/4i

4-Channel Class D Full-Range Amplifier with Integrated DSP, 100 W x 4 @ 2 Ω / 75 W x 4 @ 4 Ω - 14.4V Designed to simplify great audio, every VXi amplifier combines our advanced NexD2™ switching amplifier technology with an integrated, full-featured digital signal processor. With our...

www.jlaudio.com

Fantastic Midbass for the money. The GB is better but the GS is very close.

GB15 1 1/2" (38 MM) AUDIOPHILE GRADE AUTOMOTIVE TWEETER - Audiofrog

Previous Next OVERVIEW FEATURES TECHNICAL DETAILS DOWNLOADS OVERVIEW Designed primarily for use with the GB60 as the ultimate 2-way system for kick panel or door installation, the GB15 1-1/2” tweeter provides low distortion and high frequency extension not common in other large tweeters. With...

www.audiofrog.com

Probably the best tweet if you're not going 3 way.

yeah my friend was running a pair of vx400.4i's in his doors, plenty of low end for 6.5's

/s, you jumbled a link
op, i think he meant to link to the audiofrog gs60's
I think, if you arent scared to buy home audio drivers, you can probably do better for the money than the gs and gb's. thats not to say they arent good drivers and dont have their place, im sure theyre excellent, and come with both great accessories and support, but it seems like you have a pre-existing knowledge of home audio, if so, treat this like home audio, but keep in mind the speaker axis, different left and right lengths to listener, reflections, moisture and temperature, and the fact that unless you build a speaker box for the speakers, they arent going into a speaker box, that is to say, install makes a bigger difference than product choice in many cases. do your best to optimize the speaker and the door that acts as its enclosure, not just the speaker. DSP's are more important in car audio than they are in home audio for some of the aforementioned reasons, youll need eq bcs reflections, time delay and level control bcs path length differences, and adjustable crossovers to fine tune between off-axis drivers. deaden and seal those doors up tight

 

[stochastic]

it seems like you have a pre-existing knowledge of home audio

I've built >50 pairs of home audio speakers and own measurement gear.

I've also done a sq car build about a decade ago (Mark Audio 4" full range in a custom dash box with a CSS 10" sealed in the trunk, with an old rockford fosgate 3sixty.2). Deadening & all too. I'll see if I can dig up some old pics - it measured real nice.

DSP's are more important in car audio than they are in home audio for some of the aforementioned reasons, youll need eq bcs reflections, time delay and level control bcs path length differences, and adjustable crossovers to fine tune between off-axis drivers.

Yeah, I get the acoustic challenges involved. Does a centre channel help?

Got any recommendations for DSPs on the market now?

I assume I'll need one with speaker-level ins and then an amp on the other side? I'd love to not use to much extra power if at all possible.

 

[Slave2myXJ]

Subwoofer or just this one set of speakers?

 

[stochastic]

Subwoofer or just this one set of speakers?

I do not really want a sub unless it's a small lightweight pair of subs in the front.

 

[Slave2myXJ]

It would really help if you could fit a 2.5" wideband or coax, like a Audiofrog GB25 or a CDT Unity 8, so that you could crossover low, and allow you to run a "mid-bass" 6.5 instead of a "mid-range" 6.5...

 

[RyuTsuiSen]

For small up front subs maybe the JBL fuse? They don't need a lot of power. If you aren't running a lot of power to a sub then efficiency/cone area will help a lot.

The match up 7/10 dsp amps have dual 2 ohm channels that do 160 watts apiece I believe, so that might be a great way to have an all in one system that won't push a ton of wattage. And really they'll only use that much wattage at much higher volumes, especially if you don't have a bass heavy curve on your sound. In this situation a couple sealed 10s or even 8's would do you good.

The match dsp amps also run the helix software so you're getting a great dsp along with it. There was a match 10 for sale on the classifieds but I think it's pending or sold. But they've been coming up more and more lately. Even if you spent a grand on the match, that covers your amp and dsp and leaves room for raw drivers like you mentioned.

Edit: I also use my match 7 through speaker level inputs.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[RyuTsuiSen]

It would really help if you could fit a 2.5" wideband or coax, like a Audiofrog GB25 or a CDT Unity 8, so that you could crossover low, and allow you to run a "mid-bass" 6.5 instead of a "mid-range" 6.5...

I also definitely agree with this. A good wideband and a midbass is all I'd do for a 2 way. Makes crossovers so much easier. Widebands need to be either on axis or firing into the windshield.

That being said, if you picked out raw drivers, you could build a 3 way for pretty dang reasonable. There used to be an old thread on here for 3 ways under 100, 300, and 500.
Sb acoustics is one of my favorite producers for quality value products. A 3 way wouldn't increase power draw much either. A midrange crossed over between 200-400 and a tweet won't pull a lot of power. Like tens of watts at the most. Midbass and subs are where power draw really comes in.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[stochastic]

Now y'all have me thinking about a wideband 2" driver crossed around 400Hz in the a-sails and a 6.5" woofer. The go-to brand I'd use for wideband (Mark Audio) has one that could work but the power handling tops out at 5W on their spec sheet, however that's full-range down to a 97Hz fall-off. They've got a 87dB sensitivity rating. Would they crap out on me? I'm not going to crank this loud, just sit and enjoy the clear music.

What 6.5" woofers would people recommend that can get low in a door-mount but also handle a 400-600Hz crossover? Maybe a scanspeak revelator?

 

[gijoe]

I'd only do a midrange/wideband in a 2-way if I was going to use a real midbass like an 8", or high excursion 6.5. If you're using a classic 6.5 midrange/midbass, you can pair a good tweeter and get great results. You'll need a good tweeter that plays low, but there are plenty of options depending on how much you want to spend, how much space you have to work with, and whether or not you can put it more on axis.

Since you don't want a sub, I would recommend the true midbass plan. Use an 8", or something like the Exodus Anarchy, and a small 2" (ish) speaker.

 

[stochastic]

I'd only do a midrange/wideband in a 2-way if I was going to use a real midbass like an 8", or high excursion 6.5. If you're using a classic 6.5 midrange/midbass, you can pair a good tweeter and get great results. You'll need a good tweeter that plays low, but there are plenty of options depending on how much you want to spend, how much space you have to work with, and whether or not you can put it more on axis.

Since you don't want a sub, I would recommend the true midbass plan. Use an 8", or something like the Exodus Anarchy, and a small 2" (ish) speaker.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term "real midbass". Can you define it?

Additionally, I'm not interested in increasing the SD of the woofer due to installation constraints. So 6.5" (maybe 7) is the size that fits my car.

 

[Slave2myXJ]

Fs < 40hz would go a long way...

 

[gijoe]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term "real midbass". Can you define it?

Additionally, I'm not interested in increasing the SD of the woofer due to installation constraints. So 6.5" (maybe 7) is the size that fits my car.

The 6.5" size that is common in a car is neither a great size for midbass, nor a great size for midrange, but it is a good compromise of both.

A true midbass would either be larger, or specifically designed to excel in midbass with the expectation that something else would be used for midrange and up.

If you end up using a classic 6.5" midbass/midrange you won't have much bass without a subwoofer. You won't have much below 80hz if you want to speakers to survive and have relatively low distortion. Using a dedicated midbass driver can help you get a bit more bass, but they won't play high enough to pair with a tweeter, so you'd probably need a midrange/wideband driver to take over.

 

[stochastic]

So would something like a Scanspeak 18w/4531 (fs of 33Hz) ScanSpeak Revelator 18W/4531G 7" Mid-Woofer 4 ohm

Or a CSS LDW7 (fs of 30Hz) SHOP | css-audio

Do well crossed around 300-500Hz to the 2"wideband in the A-sails?

Let's discuss specific technical details on what would or wouldn't be good.

 

[stochastic]

Also, nobody in this thread has mentioned the centre channel. Should I add it? There's a spot in the dash for one.

 

[Slave2myXJ]

I doubt you'll have enough depth for one of these, but if you do...

Home

Epique E180HE-44 7" DVC MMAG Extended Range Subwoofer 4 Ohm per CoilEpique E180HE-44 7" DVC MMAG Extended Range Subwoofer 4 Ohm per CoilLike. No. OtherCombining world class performance with a reasonable cost, the Epique E180HE-44 7" carbon fiber cone woofer from Dayton Audio sets a new standard...

www.parts-express.com

Otherwise you're going to want maximize the amount of Xmax...

Your best bet is to find a way to get the raw signal before it's processed and amplified for each speaker, otherwise you may need to have a center channel just to get all of the music content, depending on how the sound is processed. Does yours have the Bose system? A properly implemented center channel can do a lot of good but otherwise it's just a bandaid attempt to fix other issues. Generally, owners of new cars would use something like this. Your's isn't listed, possibly because it's so new; you may have issues finding something that will work so soon after release...

https://www.idatalinkmaestro.com/en

 

[stochastic]

No bose system in my trim, and I doubt that Epique will fit the depth in the doors.

 

[Isaradia]

Center channel is a no in this case i think, to me, center channel is for 2 seat tunes, im not convinced its perfect for that, it requires more processing. If this is just for you, im assuiming most of the audio you listen to is recorded in left/right, why have speakers in any other way? what's the lowest frequency information in your listening selection? we need to know that to know which 6.5's to recommend. dayton and minidsp both have decent, cheap, dsp options, and the vx400.4i mentioned by another user has built in dsp. high-level in would be nice, but a good line-output converter would also solve the issue if need be. if you can get axis decent, stevens mb6 and sa1 would be a cheap, efficient combo, but fall off under 60-70hz, stevens SA6CS is a great set that can dig low, but mine liked power, (but maybe i just liked power, lol) there are some decent cheap class a/b amps out there since youre looking to keep things efficient anyway. I like the idea of a midbass and wideband vs mid and tweet, sls 6, anarchy, purifi if big money, you know how to find a scan or dayton driver, cdt unity7.5, unity8, blam has an almost wideband, but if you already have one you like, run what you know is good. if you wanna get low out of a 6.5 without a dedicated enclosure youll need power... id just find a dsp 4 channel with hi-in that i like for a good price then pick drivers based on mounting locations and axis to listener. Id proabaly go vxi or dayton/minidsp and great deal 4 channel, and either sa6cs or sls 6 and unity 8

 

[stochastic]

I'd prefer a 2-seat tune to a 1-seat tune.

As for source material, if it can play the following albus convincingly I'll be happy:

• Talk Talk - Spirit of Eden
• Radiohead - Kid A (or In Rainbows)
• The Roots - Undun
• Beck - Sea Change
• Alice in Chains - MTV Unplugged
• Tracy Chapman - Self Titled
• Rush - Moving Pictures
• Rage Against The Machine - Evil Empire

But I know it won't beat my home system or headphones and I'm okay with that.

Thanks for the recommendations so far. They've started me down the right path.