[gnesterenko]

Ahoy friends! My project plan is finally coming together, the pieces are lined up, shipped, or already have arrived, but I need your help to pick the last key component - the subwoofer.

Musical Application: Major Basshead here. Usually rocking to dubstep, grime, house, trance, hip-hop, trip-hop and metal.

Physical Application: 'steath-box' style install in a Camry trunk side pocket. Custom-fit fiberglass enclosure, set up for 12" and 1.5 cubic feet volume. Powered by JL Audio HD900/5 subwoofer channel (500W RMS - but I hear this is a conservative rating). Planned crossover at 65-70 Hz w/ 24db/octave defeat.

Currently under consideration:
Imagine Dynamics IDQv3 12
Exodus Shiva X2
Memphis C312D4
FiQ12 (2ohm coils)
Incriminator Audio Flatlyne 12"
JL 12w6v2

Any and all suggestions welcome. Again, going for excellent, level response in the sub 35Hz frequency range. Sound Quality is a paramount consideration. I don't care about SPL - any of these would be plenty powerful enough for my tastes regardless of which I pick.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

 

[Cruzer]

shiva gets my vote easy

 

[dragonrage]

The only motor in that list that has a likely chance of competing with the Shiva's XBL^2 motor is the IA Flatlyne's underhung motor. Underhung motors are actually my favorite, but that doesn't make all of them better than all non-underhung motors. And given IA's poor, immature marketing style and their refusal to help the community get some useful, objective data about their products, I will NOT buy their stuff.

That, in my mind, leaves the Shiva-X2 as my product of choice by FAR.

The IDQ is definitely not bad but it has a generic motor that lacks the linear stroke of the XBL^2 (though it does have a decent amount).

I have a Fi Q12 D2 in my car right now and I will say this: AVOID. Gah. I hate this thing. I hope to replace it really soon.

I haven't had W6v2s but I did used to run 12w6s and they were decent, but they also have pretty generic motors. Never heard those Memphis subs. Not too experienced with Memphis stuff.

 

[BuickGN]

The only motor in that list that has a likely chance of competing with the Shiva's XBL^2 motor is the IA Flatlyne's underhung motor. Underhung motors are actually my favorite, but that doesn't make all of them better than all non-underhung motors. And given IA's poor, immature marketing style and their refusal to help the community get some useful, objective data about their products, I will NOT buy their stuff.

That, in my mind, leaves the Shiva-X2 as my product of choice by FAR.

The IDQ is definitely not bad but it has a generic motor that lacks the linear stroke of the XBL^2 (though it does have a decent amount).

I have a Fi Q12 D2 in my car right now and I will say this: AVOID. Gah. I hate this thing. I hope to replace it really soon.

I haven't had W6v2s but I did used to run 12w6s and they were decent, but they also have pretty generic motors. Never heard those Memphis subs. Not too experienced with Memphis stuff.

Describe "generic" in regards to the W6 motor. So even if it's more linear than the others, since JL did not put a name to their technology that means its not as good? The v2 shares nothing with the previous version.

The only ones I've personally heard are the W6, FI, and the Flatlyne. You won't be disappointed with the W6 or IDQ. In the installations I've heard, the FI is not a contender. I've only heard one so who knows if it was the sub or the installation.between the W6 and Flatlyne I would probably go with the JL. It seemed to dig just as deep, just as accurate and could go past 60hz easier if that's important to you. Again, could have been the enclosure too.

 

[dragonrage]

Describe "generic" in regards to the W6 motor. So even if it's more linear than the others, since JL did not put a name to their technology that means its not as good?

Okay, it's an overhung piece of crap, with no technology like XBL^2 in it to make up for the fact that it's not underhung.

Happy?

Agree or not, it is a FACT that it is not even CLOSE to as linear as the Shiva. About 50% more rated Xmax from the Shiva, and I strongly believe the JL to be overrating it by using a different method as opposed to the "30% down on the BL curve" method. I bet the Shiva has as much linear Xmax as the W6v2 has Xmech.

If you love the sound of the 12w6v2 then I'm not going to tell you that you should use something else, but the Shiva is objectively the more advanced, more capable, lower distortion of the two.

 

[gnesterenko]

Hmm, another one to the list for comparison - Massive Audio QC or DC 12"?

 

[BuickGN]

Okay, it's an overhung piece of crap, with no technology like XBL^2 in it to make up for the fact that it's not underhung.

Happy?

Agree or not, it is a FACT that it is not even CLOSE to as linear as the Shiva. About 50% more rated Xmax from the Shiva, and I strongly believe the JL to be overrating it by using a different method as opposed to the "30% down on the BL curve" method. I bet the Shiva has as much linear Xmax as the W6v2 has Xmech.

If you love the sound of the 12w6v2 then I'm not going to tell you that you should use something else, but the Shiva is objectively the more advanced, more capable, lower distortion of the two.

Here we go. Show me these facts that show the W6 is "not even close to as linear as the Shiva". Or "the Shiva has as much linear xmax as the W6v2 has xmech". Do you know the xmech of the W6 or are you just guessing? "I strongly believe the JL to be overrating it by using a different method as opposed to the 30% down". You believe? What makes you believe this?


I haven't heard the Shiva so I can't compare and I wouldn't pretend to know which one sounds better. You seem to have picked the Shiva to compare the W6 to, to support your argument that the W6 is junk. I have to ask though, how many W6v2 have you heard and how many of the Shivas have you heard? It gets old that every time a JL thread comes up it's the same old non underhung, average motor bs. You got called out the last time by several people with more knowledge than myself about those statements.

What it comes down to is you should not bash something you've never used based solely on the specs you think are important. If you had listened to all of these subs back to back and you thought the Shiva sounded better, I would have no problem with it. I liked the AE IB15 better than the W6 so I'm attempting to use it, no loyalty here, I just like good sound.

 

[Danometal]

And given IA's poor, immature marketing style and their refusal to help the community get some useful, objective data about their products, I will NOT buy their stuff.

Haha. I totally agree with this. I once considered a Sundown sub, but I got to looking on their site for some T/S parameters, and uhhh, they omit some of them, either on purpose, or they just don't know. How am I supposed to model it? I can convert the lame 2.83V sensitivity ratings, but no Xmax? No sale.

Edit: And, btw, misspelled words on companys' websites is a turn off too. Seriously, no spell check before posting what you intend to lure me to your products with? lol

Edit #2: I just looked again to make sure I'm not railing needlessly, and Sundown doesn't even list a sensitivity rating of any kind. How weak.

 

[Cruzer]

Haha. I totally agree with this. I once considered a Sundown sub, but I got to looking on their site for some T/S parameters, and uhhh, they omit some of them, either on purpose, or they just don't know. How am I supposed to model it? I can convert the lame 2.83V sensitivity ratings, but no Xmax? No sale.

Edit: And, btw, misspelled words on companys' websites is a turn off too. Seriously, no spell check before posting what you intend to lure me to your products with? lol

Edit #2: I just looked again to make sure I'm not railing needlessly, and Sundown doesn't even list a sensitivity rating of any kind. How weak.

they list everything where they sell them
Sundown Audio SA-12 600 watt sub woofer

 

[dragonrage]

Here we go. Show me these facts that show the W6 is "not even close to as linear as the Shiva". Or "the Shiva has as much linear xmax as the W6v2 has xmech". Do you know the xmech of the W6 or are you just guessing? "I strongly believe the JL to be overrating it by using a different method as opposed to the 30% down". You believe? What makes you believe this?

Fine, I'll do the work for you. You should really learn how to do this.

JL Audio 12W6v2 Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers
One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 0.65 in. / 16.5 mm

https://www.diycable.com/main/produ...s_id=693&Cid=a851d42ee1e983e8604757979a1703d3
X-max: 26mm

It's not impossible for the JL w6v2 to have Xmech more than 50% higher than Xmax, but I doubt it. Feel free to ignore this statement if you want, but the Shiva has 50% more linear excursion.

AND

Also from JL's site, "Xmax specifications are derived via one-way voice coil overhang method with no correction factors applied. "

as opposed to BL/Kms curves. If they rated it the same way Exodus did, it would be less. .3 down on BL/Kms will give a lower Xmax number than coil overhang.

 

[Mikcuz]

Wheres the RE

 

[Cruzer]

Wheres the RE

budget subs dont tend to be top SQ contenders would be my guess

 

[Mikcuz]

budget subs dont tend to be top SQ contenders would be my guess

Their whole line doesnt consist of budget minded subs. Maybe a little more orientated around spl but they are not all budget to my knowledge.

 

[Cruzer]

Their whole line doesnt consist of budget minded subs. Maybe a little more orientated around spl but they are not all budget to my knowledge.

ok so why spend same amount as another known sq sub for a sub that is more oriented around spl? seems like u might be happy, but unless its cheaper wouldnt in my eyes be a better buy or a buy worth a try

 

[bassfromspace]

I'm with the others when it comes to IA.

Not sure of Memphis or Massive's quality and don't really care.

I'd personally look for a used w7.

 

[gnesterenko]

So looking like its the Shiva X2 (gotta wait till one pops up for sale, or June, whichever comes first) or and IDQv3, of which more then a couple are on eBay. Pretty sure I've committed to bumping up to JL HD 600/4 and a 750/1 instead of the 900/5. A few more hundred bucks, but those two I will probably keep until they break. A 900/5 is a bit weak in the longer term, so would end up replacing it again.... how long do car amps last anyways?

 

[BuickGN]

Fine, I'll do the work for you. You should really learn how to do this.

JL Audio 12W6v2 Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers
One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 0.65 in. / 16.5 mm

https://www.diycable.com/main/produ...s_id=693&Cid=a851d42ee1e983e8604757979a1703d3
X-max: 26mm

It's not impossible for the JL w6v2 to have Xmech more than 50% higher than Xmax, but I doubt it. Feel free to ignore this statement if you want, but the Shiva has 50% more linear excursion.

AND

Also from JL's site, "Xmax specifications are derived via one-way voice coil overhang method with no correction factors applied. "

as opposed to BL/Kms curves. If they rated it the same way Exodus did, it would be less. .3 down on BL/Kms will give a lower Xmax number than coil overhang.

Alright, smartass. I know the xmax on both.

I found the W6s xmech once and it was waaay higher than the xmax. I want to say it was around 28mm one way.

You're so biased you base your whole argument on assumptions in order to make JL products look bad. Your quote above about the xmax specs are purely assumption. That works both ways, JL may hold them to a higher distortion standard and underrate xmax compared to the rest.

The Shiva runs out of excursion right after xmax so it's possible the two have roughly the same xmech.

Regardless, the OP stated he wants sq, not spl so again it your attempt to make JL look bad you've forgotten the subject at hand.

Unlike yourself, only looking at specs on a product (and only one spec at that), I've ordered two Exodus Tempest 15s. I put my money where my mouth is. I'll have a comparison to the W6 in less than two weeks. To tell you the truth, I'm scared as hell I'm going to lose sq. The ONLY area the W6 could improve on in this configuration is bass past 75hz. Everything else is perfect. If I had not already sold my other one I would run two 12W6s and call it a day.

I can't wait to see if this xbl2 technology lives up to your hype, I have a feeling I'm going to be disappointed. Technology is great but my ears have the final say. Some people hate things they can't afford.

 

[Cruzer]

the tempest wont sound worse thats for sure. cant promise it will sound better, but it is clean none the less

same goes for shiva.

 

[dragonrage]

Alright, smartass. I know the xmax on both.

I found the W6s xmech once and it was waaay higher than the xmax. I want to say it was around 28mm one way.

Okay, so by your own claim, it has 2mm more Xmech than Shiva has Xmax. Wow!

You're so biased you base your whole argument on assumptions in order to make JL products look bad. Your quote above about the xmax specs are purely assumption.

You don't agree with me so I'm biased? What did I assume? I quoted JL's own site. The "coil in the gap" method is not a good way to measure linear excursion.

Unlike yourself, only looking at specs on a product (and only one spec at that),

Excuse me? Unlike myself?

I can't wait to see if this xbl2 technology lives up to your hype, I have a feeling I'm going to be disappointed. Technology is great but my ears have the final say. Some people hate things they can't afford.

Way to be optimistic. Why are you ordering what I recommend and then being a complete ass to me about recommending it?

You're now on my ignore list. But enjoy your Tempests because they are MUCH better drivers than W6s. MUCH.

 

[BuickGN]

Okay, so by your own claim, it has 2mm more Xmech than Shiva has Xmax. Wow!

Which was a response to your claim of so much more excursion than the W6. The Shiva hits xmech shortly after xmax. The xmech is very similar between the two.

You don't agree with me so I'm biased? What did I assume? I quoted JL's own site. The "coil in the gap" method is not a good way to measure linear excursion.

Every time JL is mentioned you beat it down. If you had numbers or or better yet if you had listening experience of each one you mention I couldn't say much about it. Unfortunately you base which one will sound better by which one has the xbl2 motor and which one doesn't. There are just a couple other things that make good sound lol.

Excuse me? Unlike myself?

Ok, what have you personally owned or extensively listened to? The Shiva, the 12W6?

Way to be optimistic. Why are you ordering what I recommend and then being a complete ass to me about recommending it?

This is what you don't get. I've never said the Shiva and Tempest are not great drivers. I'm sure they are. In fact it's not really about how good or bad they are, it's about the reasons why you say they are so good or the W6 is so bad. I hope they sound great. I hope they sound better than the W6 but I have my doubts. I figured what better way to find out than to order a couple.

You're now on my ignore list. But enjoy your Tempests because they are MUCH better drivers than W6s. MUCH.

We'll see about that. If you're right, I'll have no problem admitting it but I have my doubts based solely on it's xbl2 motor. Now that I'm on your ignore list I assume you will not be responding no matter what I say....:gossip: :laugh: