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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is one thing that I would like to share. I have been testing my system SQ buy matching the seem to be perfect wattage to each driver. does that make sense? starting with my morel piccolos. At 100watts or less they sound great, but at 150watts or more they light up like the 4th of July! one word awesome! so I found that there is no one amp, that is on the market that can achieve what my drivers are looking for. My midrange which is a Morel CDM54 needs a little less, a good 100watts make the voice present and true! and helps the midbass out a great deal, when there are bass notes and the bass player is going down the strings its like your playing the instrument. Now my Dynaudio MW182 he is another beast. he likes double the power so that he can keep up with the high end, and with 347watts to each of them in the door he is a happy camper! I have tried a four channel amp and the power requirements for each driver had me all over the place. now the system is tighter in tune, meaning that I don't have to drastic changes in sound going from the B-52s to Snoop doggie Dog. It just seems like all my system is well feed:) So as a recap I have a wide variance in wattage going to each driver, and it made a huge difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
you like!
 

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Your post greatly confuses me. You do realise that the power being sent to each speaker is entirely dependant on volume right? ie for quiet music, all of your speakers are receiving 0-5W. So how does the max rms rating of your amp affect the sound quality, assuming it isn't being driven too hard?

If your post was tongue in cheek, I apologise. I'm under caffeinated.
 

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Your post greatly confuses me. You do realise that the power being sent to each speaker is entirely dependant on volume right? ie for quiet music, all of your speakers are receiving 0-5W. So how does the max rms rating of your amp affect the sound quality, assuming it isn't being driven too hard?

If your post was tongue in cheek, I apologise. I'm under caffeinated.
I think you are confused... If I wasn't studying for midterms I'd attempt to explain.
 

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I think you are confused... If I wasn't studying for midterms I'd attempt to explain.
Maybe I am - I would love an explanation :(. By my understanding, you'd be fine running 50W rms speakers off a 1000W rms amp - as long as you don't turn it up. And, provided the amps perform similarly, same class and that, it wouldn't sound any different.

I thought that's why people can enjoy valve amps - where nearly all of them are greatly under the power ratings of even modest speakers. They give the more mellowy sound, but just can't be turned up as loud. :confused:
 

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Maybe I am - I would love an explanation :(. By my understanding, you'd be fine running 50W rms speakers off a 1000W rms amp - as long as you don't turn it up. And, provided the amps perform similarly, same class and that, it wouldn't sound any different.
This is my understanding as well.

I thought that's why people can enjoy valve amps - where nearly all of them are greatly under the power ratings of even modest speakers. They give the more mellowy sound, but just can't be turned up as loud. :confused:
From what I understand, when using under-powered amps, the focus should be on speaker efficiency to get the most out of the smaller amp. That first 1-watt of power is the most important. IMO, amps are too low in wattage. I don't bother matching an amp's RMS to a speaker's RMS. Why? Simple. The MUSIC you play will dictate the true RMS output wattage to your speaker. Buy the biggest amp you can, especially for bass drivers.

To better understand how much wattage you're really sending to the speaker, think of the way the music you're playing is mastered. Most modern music is recorded with a very compressed dynamic range, so the RMS to your speakers is likely to be higher at the same volume as compared to a less compressed track.

This is why I find with my older recordings, the sound has more impact and quality with more available clean wattage. I wish I could have found a reasonably priced 250-watt or even 350-watt RMS 4-channel amplifier for my mid-bass and comps. I would have like to have been able to find a reasonably priced 2,500-watt RMS sub amp as well. I can say without any doubt that more clean power will equal more clarity, impact and drama from your music, especially music with a wide dynamic range like orchestra/opera or older 70's - 80's rock/pop. Even with a 175-watt RMS x 4 amp, I just love how older tracks sound! The extra power over my previous 65-watt x 4 amp clearly shows in better sound on older recordings. Michael Jackson's "Human Nature" track just dropped my jaw when it randomly came up on my music player.

So, I'm a BIG advocate of buying MUCH more RMS power than a speaker is rated. About 3-4 times more RMS amp power than the RMS speaker rating and use a DMM to make sure you don't clip with a 0db tone. When you set an amp with a DMM you quickly find out how little clean power 100-watts RMS really is and that your speaker can take MUCH more peak power than that on most music.
 

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With the sealed back mid and the tweeter I can understand giving them just a little more (maybe even double) power. I think midwoofers on the other hand are very install dependent. Having nice pods or Kicks is much different than even a sealed door let alone a door with gaping access panels. Add to that the tons of driver options and dialing in the final solution can get rough for me at least.

I'll give you a for instance, I have Morel HU621 6" 160 w rms midbass speakers I'm about to install. I would really like to run out and buy a nice 250w per channel amp for them but the are going to be playing IB in a sealed door (deadened and no access holes). At this point I'm not sure they will handle 100w let alone 300w each. So I'm going to wait and test them off of a 100w per channel amp I have (actually 55x4 but these mids are 8ohm, so I'll bridge it) to see how well they handle power in the given application and at what highpass. Then I'll figure out which amp to purchase long term.
 

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With the sealed back mid and the tweeter I can understand giving them just a little more (maybe even double) power. I think midwoofers on the other hand are very install dependent. Having nice pods or Kicks is much different than even a sealed door let alone a door with gaping access panels. Add to that the tons of driver options and dialing in the final solution can get rough for me at least.

I'll give you a for instance, I have Morel HU621 6" 160 w rms midbass speakers I'm about to install. I would really like to run out and buy a nice 250w per channel amp for them but the are going to be playing IB in a sealed door (deadened and no access holes). At this point I'm not sure they will handle 100w let alone 300w each. So I'm going to wait and test them off of a 100w per channel amp I have (actually 55x4 but these mids are 8ohm, so I'll bridge it) to see how well they handle power in the given application and at what lowpass. Then I'll figure out which amp to purchase long term.
Right now I'm running 175-watts set with a DMM to the midbasses and around 145ish watts set with a DMM to the mid/tweet comps. I can STILL push more output to these drivers. I top out the full output of these all the time, especially on dynamic tracks and the drivers don't sound like they are straining. They can take MORE.

My problem is that at 175/144 watts to the mid-bass/comps (50Hz - 20KHz) has more output than the 1200-watts to the subs (under 50Hz). The subs need to be set to clip and require more power right now just to keep up. So, if I could upgrade my sub amp (or get more efficient subs) then upgrading the mid-bass/comp amp would be a consideration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Let me put it to you this way, so that you can understand. First off this is related to components, when using a passive xover none of this applies. This is only when using a active set-up, so most of the speakers will be of different wattage. If your tweeters are rated @ [email protected] 0hm, don't you think it needs more power then you midrange which is 100watts @ 4ohm and your drive which is 200watts at 4 ohm. It is impossible to get the best SQ from each speaker running on a 50-100 watt amp which most of the 4/ch amps are. now I'm not going to go into great detail mathematically, if each speaker performs best at double the rated rms(not say that you are going to use it all ,cause we never do) It gives you great HD and easier tunability. most people who run active know what I am talking about, now in some cases you can get away with using a 4/ch amp in a three way set-up the tweets and the midrange are the same wattage and ohm, but they still prefer to use a separate amp for the driver. remember that I said that this set-up applies to me and my system. Some are using 8 ohm speakers in the system along with other four ohm speakers, if running of the same amp, very hard to tune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Right now I'm running 175-watts set with a DMM to the midbasses and around 145ish watts set with a DMM to the mid/tweet comps. I can STILL push more output to these drivers. I top out the full output of these all the time, especially on dynamic tracks and the drivers don't sound like they are straining. They can take MORE.

My problem is that at 175/144 watts to the mid-bass/comps (50Hz - 20KHz) has more output than the 1200-watts to the subs (under 50Hz). The subs need to be set to clip and require more power right now just to keep up. So, if I could upgrade my sub amp (or get more efficient subs) then upgrading the mid-bass/comp amp would be a consideration.
exactly! I would up grade the sub amp to more power if you like the sound of your sub, one thing , what is the rms of your sub?
 

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You want MORE power for a high efficiency driver than you do one that isn't;)
 

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exactly! I would up grade the sub amp to more power if you like the sound of your sub, one thing , what is the rms of your sub?
MORE POWA! :biggrinflip::shocked2::laugh:
 

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I love the idea of headroom. But I am concerned about over driving the speakers. For instance the 12M mids are rated for 40W RMS. I am planning on running them with PDX 4.150 which has 150W on tap. If I set the gains for AMP clipping don’t I run the risk of exceeding the thermal limits on the mid. I could keep the volume under control but how do I know exactly where to draw the line? And what if some yahoo in my truck turns up the volume before I can stop them? On the other hand if I limit the gains to 40W max output then I lose the headroom right? How do you handle high power amps on speakers that are not designed to handle the full output power available?
 

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I love the idea of headroom. But I am concerned about over driving the speakers. For instance the 12M mids are rated for 40W RMS. I am planning on running them with PDX 4.150 which has 150W on tap. If I set the gains for AMP clipping don’t I run the risk of exceeding the thermal limits on the mid. I could keep the volume under control but how do I know exactly where to draw the line? And what if some yahoo in my truck turns up the volume before I can stop them? On the other hand if I limit the gains to 40W max output then I lose the headroom right? How do you handle high power amps on speakers that are not designed to handle the full output power available?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
what seems to work the best is is double the wattage that the speakers rms is rated at. a 40watt speaker I use 80 watts of power.
 
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