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Discussion Starter #1
2018 Mustang GT – Base Radio with 6 speaker set-up. No door midrange, not in short term scope to add to door if ever.

Right or wrong I’m starting a new thread since the last one was really about not knowing what I wanted to do and me needing to talk things out to get a handle on it. It worked.

Now that I put a stake in the ground it’s been interesting trying to take the next step and thought it may work better if I started a fresh thread, I went with option 1 from my previous ramblings

Option 1 - DSP & Active

  • Phase 1
    • Audio Control DSP D-6.1200 – I felt the integrated DSP/Amp solution simplified things for what is only my second full build and first DSP & active system. I feel as though this is the backbone of my system
    • Front Speakers (here’s where I could use some suggestions)
    • Add a budget 4 ohm sub - driven by channels 5/6 bridged
    • Then see how I like the system as is and if I need rear fill then go to phase 2
  • Phase 2
    • Add back in the rear fill
    • Add mono amp (2 ohm stable) to drive budget subs, use channels 5 & 6 for the rear fill
  • Phase 3
    • Upgrade from budget sub to real sub if still yearning for more
Front Speakers

Budget Solution
– buy 2 way component sets and toss the crossovers. Considering this option due to sale ($379 for fronts and rears) and investment made in backbone of the system (DSP/Amp). Upside of this option is I can try the rear fills without much investment (it was $80 to add the rears with the buy one get half off next)

Pioneer TS-Z65CH Z-Series 6-1/2" component speaker system for the Fronts https://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSZ65CH/Pioneer-TS-Z65CH.html

Bonus - Pioneer TS-D65C D Series 6-1/2" component speaker system can be added for $80 (rears) https://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSD65C/Pioneer-TS-D65C.html

If I went with these, then I would be accelerating adding the rears by either driving them from factory radio or reusing a small vintage 2 channel amp (50 RMS) I have from my first build.

With a DSP, will the Pioneers work pretty well in an active mid-level build?

Individual drivers approach
– challenge here is I need to learn how to match drivers (tweeter/woofer) from different speaker lines or MFG due to trouble of fitting factory speaker locations

There are several that I had to eliminate due to fitment issues, many that are popular here on the forum, but here’s a couple of choices that fit

Morel Virtus 603 MW paired with unknown tweeter

Cento woofer and its 26 OE tweeter but I leave power on the table @70 RMS max versus the other choices above.

And one that I haven’t confirmed fitment for yet - Audison Voce AV 6.5" Car Midrange (Pair) AV65

The Morel vs Cento are two different cost levels. If my old Alpine 6560 tweeters could match the Morel’s well, then I can definitely spend more on the MW and the Morel or something close to their price

Any other good MW choices for a 2 way set-up with higher power handling capabilities?

Subwoofers –
still deciding on budget for this one either a budget sub in the 150 to 350 range or a fixed cost approach of <600

Budget Option for phase 1

Pioneer TS-SWX3002 12" Shallow-Mount Pre-Loaded Enclosure to conserve space as well as $

OR a pair of these Kenwood Excelon P-XW804B https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113PXW804B/Kenwood-Excelon-P-XW804B.html?tp=112

Mid-Level Option – the price point here eliminates the custom enclosures built for the Mustang’s factory woofer location (example of one is https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13694617/JL-Audio-Stealthbox.html)

One enclosure that fits, with 0.87 CF of volume, with how I want to use my cargo space is this:

https://www.zenclosures.com/2015-Mustang-Subwoofer-Box-p/mustang15t1rfhalfbox.htm

Otherwise, the next best option for me is a down firing enclosure so I can throw my golf stuff on it.

Any sub recommendations for a <$600 sub including enclosure? Amp is 4 ohm stable when bridged

Maybe I could drive a pair (2 ohm each) of these https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113PX1002D/Kenwood-Excelon-P-XRW1002DB.html?tp=112 or its 12” version. Just drive each one on its own channel and use the DSP to make it all work???? I will look into the amp and software more to see.

I really really like how this one looks, I saw it in a shop today, stands out versus the normal offerings: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13693310/JL-Audio-HO110-W6v3.html?tp=112 or its older brother at 12” the only problem is they are 2 ohm and my main amp can only drive 4 ohm when bridged. I would need to add a sub amp at the same time which puts me well over my budget for the sub. Also, since it’s ported I might have been able to get away with the 10” version and save a little space

Do industrial Velcro & maybe a strap or two secure a sub enough without having to screw it down with brackets?
 

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Whoa! Slow down, you're bouncing around this thread and the last one like a pin ball. ;) I understand being over analytical, I do it myself. But, you've "anchored" your system as you say. Take the AudioControl D-6.1200 and build from there. It really isn't complicated. Set your overall budget, determine what items need to be purchased within that budget and go from there. I'll try and wade through your post to make some specific suggestions.

First, skip rear fill. Focus on a two way component set up front plus a subwoofer. The amp you have selected is perfect for doing just that. It looks like you were budgeting a little under $400 for front and rear. Instead, I would suggest budgeting that for a 2-way component set up front. At your price point, I would take a look at the Morel Tempo Ultra 602 from Crutchfield or the Dynaudio Esotan 232 from WoofersETC for $370. Alternately, you could grab some GS60s from Crutchfield for about $280 and add a pair of tweeters (Seas, SB Acoustics, Wavecor, Tang Band, etc) from Parts Express, Solen or Madisound for around <$120.

Next you need to settle on the enclosure you want to use. The enclosure configuration (sealed, vented, volume, etc.) should be selected first. Then you can choose the subwoofer to match your budget, enclosure and amplifier. Plenty of great options out there at the prices you are considering. If Audiofrog is still doing their clearance sale, you might see if they currently have anything that would meet your needs. Otherwise, settle on your enclosure, and we can help you figure out what to put in it.

Finally, and it seems that I end almost all of my replies to posts like yours, don't forget about all of the ancillary costs that go along with a system install. Everything from cabling and fasteners, to adapters and especially sound treatment. On the sound treatment front, I would recommend ResoNix. EB Flex and Knu Konceptz are good choices for low cost cabling and wire, and Stinger provides a good value RCA at various price points.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Whoa! Slow down, you're bouncing around this thread and the last one like a pin ball. ;)
You should have seen the earlier post but thanks for reading and responding

My initial intention with the AC Amp was to do fronts and a sub but I got side tracked by the sale. Thanks for helping me see the light. Going back to original plan of leaving the rears as the last thing to do so I can put more into the fronts and get a better sub using the AC versus having to add the mono amp yet.

For the fronts,
I would have been interested in doing more research on the Audiofrogs but they came up as not fitting
I like your suggestion on the Morel, the woofer fit, tweeters don't so I still need to learn how to match with a 3rd party tweeter, starting to dig into the tech How-to forums last night
I just started looking at the Dynaudio last night so I will dig into these more.
Also not mentioned in my original post is Arc Audio and CDT, they each caught my eye for different reasons

Thanks for the tip on the Audiofrog, ideally they would have had the 10" in 4 ohm left to get the smaller box size I wanted but I am hard pressed to pass up the 12's at these prices. I am seriously considering the GS12D2 (it keeps more to the DIY approach). I will just take the hit in cargo volume in the trunk. Initially I was leaning towards a sealed box anyways, got a little distracted (sensing a thyme here) by the beautiful JL Audio ported boxes that are ready to go but sealed is the right answer for me.

For all of the ancilliary stuff, treatment was planned (just not selected, maybe Soundskins, not sure) and I have filled a cart at KnuKoncepts but haven't pulled the trigger as I wanted to see Stinger's offerings and also came across NVX last night. The plan is not to skimp here.

Audiofrog sub :unsure:
 

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You should have seen the earlier post but thanks for reading and responding
I did. :D

My initial intention with the AC Amp was to do fronts and a sub but I got side tracked by the sale. Thanks for helping me see the light. Going back to original plan of leaving the rears as the last thing to do so I can put more into the fronts and get a better sub using the AC versus having to add the mono amp yet.
The AC amp is a good starting point/platform. It also gives you the ability to add a mono amp later for the subwoofer and use those two channels that you free up to either add a midrange or rear fill later.

For the fronts,
I would have been interested in doing more research on the Audiofrogs but they came up as not fitting
I like your suggestion on the Morel, the woofer fit, tweeters don't so I still need to learn how to match with a 3rd party tweeter, starting to dig into the tech How-to forums last night
I just started looking at the Dynaudio last night so I will dig into these more.
Also not mentioned in my original post is Arc Audio and CDT, they each caught my eye for different reasons
I haven't worked on a Mustang, but I would be shocked if you couldn't fit the Audiofrogs in your doors. It would probably just require fabricating a custom adapter ring. I'll post a link below to a shop I found through a quick search that will custom cut rings if that is outside of your ability.

On the Morels, I would bet that you could just surface mount the tweeter on your A-pillar in the stock location. Remove the grill and install it from the front side. The Morels also come with several pieces of hardware to provide more installation options (cups, rings, grills, clips, etc.). I wouldn't let what Crutchfield says about installation hold you back.

On the Dynaudios, there isn't a lot of information out there on them yet. They are fairly new, and Dyn didn't publish any real data with them so I think that makes people a bit gun shy. Given Dynaudio's reputation though and the current price drop on WoofersEtc, I would take a flyer on them.

I don't have much to say on the Arcs and CDTs at your price point, but I don't think they would be in the running for my top choice.

https://store.audiodesignscg.com/product/2015-2019-ford-mustang-speaker-adapters/

Thanks for the tip on the Audiofrog, ideally they would have had the 10" in 4 ohm left to get the smaller box size I wanted but I am hard pressed to pass up the 12's at these prices. I am seriously considering the GS12D2 (it keeps more to the DIY approach). I will just take the hit in cargo volume in the trunk. Initially I was leaning towards a sealed box anyways, got a little distracted (sensing a thyme here) by the beautiful JL Audio ported boxes that are ready to go but sealed is the right answer for me.
As I stated in my previous reply. I would focus on the enclosure you plan to use first. Figure out where you want it to go and how big it is. (Obviously, there is more flexibility in custom.) Once you know what the enclosure will be, it will make selecting the subwoofer much easier.

For all of the ancilliary stuff, treatment was planned (just not selected, maybe Soundskins, not sure) and I have filled a cart at KnuKoncepts but haven't pulled the trigger as I wanted to see Stinger's offerings and also came across NVX last night. The plan is not to skimp here.

Audiofrog sub :unsure:
All of the cabling and sound treatment in my own car was initially Knu Konceptz. (I know it is hard to beat the pricing.) The power cable and speaker wire has been great, though I wish I hadn't used 12 ga for my mids and tweeters. The damper works well, but I did have one issue due to heat where a piece failed. The RCAs, I am not a fan of. They don't have the best track record and it proved true in my own car. I ended up replacing with them some custom cables I built myself. If I was buying "off the rack" I would have just picked up some Stingers to replace the Knus.

For constrained layer damper my top choices right now would be ResoNix (from Skizer on this forum), followed by Dynamat Xtreme. Knu Konceptz Kolossus (what I have now) would be a distant third. If you aren't buying and building right away, you might hold off a bit. Chris (TooStubborn2Fail) should be starting his new round of CLD testing within the next few weeks. His work has been outstanding in helping cut through the marketing BS and claims that are out there regarding sound treatment. I've been helping him put together his new test rig and this thing is an absolute beast. I am sure there are going to be some hurt feelings once he gets it up and running.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I got a chance to listen to some speakers this week looking for my front 2 way active set.

The Focal K2 KRX2 really stood out versus all the other Focals on the demo board, and anything else they had in the room, but even with the discount for the older model they really are more than I want to spend @$1050. Listening to the K2;s kind off ruined the Performance PS 165FX for me.

Listened to some Audison VOCE, Diamond Audio Elite Series (DES65C), and some other misc items. No Dynaudio in the area.

I really liked the Morels I heard today and some of them are a better price point then the Focal K2. I liked the Hybrid in particular. Unforunately they only had the Virtus Nano and not the normal/full size version. That said, as much as I like the Morels I am still struggling with the price point for the Hybrid which brings me to...

The Hertz Mille Pro MPK 165.3 Pro, I've listened to the Energy and wanted something more so I am wondering if the Mille Pro is it especially at a sale price of $350? Does this make them a good value & competitive for sound quality against other sets for the under $400 range?

How does the lisenting experience of the Mille Pro MPK compare to the Morel Virtus ($495) for those that may have heard both?
The Mille Pro sale price at Crutchfield seems to be a good discount to what it is running everywhere else (at or just over $500)

My local Morel dealer didn't carry Hertz so I only compared the Hybrids to the Elates, Virtus Nano, and Alpines.

Next step is to call the local audiofrog dealers and see if they have any on demo I can listen to, the only challenge with AF is I am not getting their tweeter into my factory location...
 

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I just spent 30min typing a essay to explain my take on your Mustang build, only to lose it all because I grazed a button. MFing Hell in a handbasket!!!!!! GD!!!!!, sometimes I just want to stomp computers. So in a short story..It's a addiction so be careful lol. 1. Don't scrimp on your tweets, 2. Don't scrimp on sound dampening. 3.Get some good 6'5's for the doors, HAT Imagine or Clarus are examples, and use the saved money on dampening materials or tweeters/cables etc. The enclosure for the Clarus sub in my 99 Outback I found on ebay for 115.00 and it's made in FL. AV Priority is their site. Highly recommended over anything from Atrend, Sound Ordinance or any of the other horse shit brands. I have 3 Outbacks I have installed some very good gear into. Most of the gear I bought off this site by watching 5 or 6 times a day and being the first in line and first with cash to take advantage of many very good buys. I have 3 Linear Power amps, 2 Audison amps, and 1 PPI PowerClass amp. The only new amp I ever bought is a JL HD 600/4 I felt was the biggest waste of 900 dollars I'll ever spend on my cars.. The Linear Power amps made the 6.5 Imagines in the 99 Outback sound so much better than the 6.5 Clarus in my 04 Outback that I began to hate the JL amp. And I don't have as much in the Imagines and 2 Linear Power amps combined as I did in the JL amp alone. The secret is out on Linear Power amps, don't see them near as much as I did 3 or 4 yrs ago. No warranty with used stuff but then again, I've never needed one with any used stuff. If you want really good sound quality go with class A/B, nuff said about that. Actually, I guess enuff said period lol. Don't scrimp on any of it but especially not on your tweeters, amps or sound dampening material. These 3 things I've learned from decades of listening. Good luck with your Stang, I love em. And if you want to ask anything, just ask
 

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MegaG, I will say that a demo board in many instances sounds completely different from what you will hear in a car. BUT, if there is something you heard that you liked and you are comfortable with that shop, then that is what I would recommend you pick up. Regardless of price point or brand. Because, if there is one thing that I have learned it is that if you buy something else you'll likely be left with a case of the "what if's".
 

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For phase 1, you don't have to buy pre-packaged components if you're running an active system with a DSP. Your budget will go further if you buy individual drivers. One thing I agree with Kenyer on is that you should not skimp on the tweeters for a 2-way front stage. The tweeter has a lot of work to do in a 2-way, so you need something good, that can play fairly low. The scan speak D3004 is a great choice, brand new a pair will cost you $250, which sounds steep, but you really do want to prioritize the tweeter.

I don't agree with Kenyer at all about his comment regarding A/B amps. I'll never buy one again, there's not much reason to. Class D is smaller, runs cooler, more efficient, and sound every bit as good these days. I'm betting that Audio Control DSP/AMP is Class D, but I'm not sure. Regardless, it will do the job just fine.

For a good sub, Audio Frog has a clearance on their G and GS line of subs. Only $75 for their lower end series the G series. I just bought a G10D4 for $99, and with the box I built I have plenty of output. Grabbing one for $75 would be a great bargain.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the recent replies & yes the AC DSP/AMP is Class D as well as already purchased (though I have no idea when it will ship - out of stock and Sonic hasn't been great getting me info)

Purchasing Update:
I just ordered the AF GS12D2-R sub, I've been hemming and hawing for a week and half but now that I have done my cardboard mock-ups I feel comfortable going with the 12", I feel confident I can get a box of enough volume and still meet my cargo needs (translation - golf bag and gear). I'm just glad it didn't sell out on me. I will work through box dimensions with Andy W looking at both rear firing and down firing enclosures

Demo Update:
Ok, my local audiofrog dealer has the GS60 set-up as a 2 way as well as the Mille Pro MPKs on his demo board and both are on sale. I hope to get there tomorrow as he claims to be down to one set of the GS60. I still have more work to do with the caliper to see if I can get the GS10 into the factory pillar but I am feeling better about it (at least I already own a Dremel). I understand & appreciate the comment about the demo board above. I will feel better having something to go by even if it changes later, that's what the DSP is for. Besides, if I can buy from local shop, that's one less package for the wifey to ask about when the door bell rings. Ideally, I would have bought this car and done this project before she retired...

Who knows, maybe my Mustang will be part frog???
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I made it to my local AF dealer today, one thing I clearly established is the range of speaker that works for me (more or less $500 & up for a 2 way, Mille Pro sale price not withstanding).

I listened to the Hertz Cento Pro and those didn't really do it for me. I almost bought these blind during Thanksgiving so now I'm really glad I didn't.

They also had several Audisons to compare against as well as the Mille Legend but that gets into the price range I was trying to avoid.

Listening to the Mille Pro and the GS60 was both enlightening as well as confusing.

Initially I prefered the Mille Pro over the GS60 but then as I listened more I did find some tracks where I like the GS60 better. I definately picked up more bass on the Mille Pro, though not muddy to me, not as tight as the GS60 (Before my home sub went down I always enjoyed its tight bass Rythmik Audio not that I am comparing the two, more reminiscing- but that's another project).

My worry is the GS60 almost seemed a little bright to me but does that really matter with a DSP and the different dynamics of the car versus the demo board?

I confirmed the HU was level and the AF crossover was set to 0 DB for the tweeter.

He did sell his last box of GS60 the previous night and only had the demo speakers to offer which I really wasn't interested in. If he had one box left I probably would have taken the flier to be done with it but since I have until the end of the month to place an order I decided to wait.

An aside to the speaker discussion:
I went by Tap Plastics on the way home and check out their cut-offs (8"x8") which are only $1 but tend to be limited to 1/4" thick for Acrylic, ABS, Polycarbonate, or foam PVC. I did get a piece of foam PVC in both 1/4" & 1/2" as well as some acrylic and ABS in 3/16" & 1/4" I can use for brackets. I figure I could use the PVC to make templates for my final acrylic speaker rings. They told me when they put out 1/2" acrylic they price the pieces individually versus putting them in the cut-off bin. I also priced some King Starboard I was thinking about for my amp rack, for 1/2" think its less per SF then acrylic. I was not expecting that. They are a small shop and all of their custom work is done with hand/bench tools, no CNC or anything fancy at this location.
 

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Before I say anything else I know this Class D vs A/B is a old subject and I have no intention of making anybody mad but....I've taken time and given time listening to explanations and reading articles on how class D circuit designs have caught up to A/B designs in their full range sound quality and that's exactly why I bought the new HD 600..I've never considered my ears as being Golden or performing anywhere above average but I had the chance to compare a old school class A/B sytem with average mid fi speakers against a new modern/top quality class D with above average high end speakers of the same brand in 2 Outbacks with the same set up design and dampening. . Two cars that were almost identical except the class D car has a Pioneer DEH p800PRS head unit while the old school car had a Pioneer DEH 80PRS head unit that again, is a lesser unit compared to the 800PRS. I agree the overall differences aren't that great but the A/B amps allowed me to hear lyrics and notes the D class didn't even touch. The singer's personality could be heard with the old school stuff and it all just sounded more...Idk, moving? I guess is the best word. I didn't change anything as far as upgrading the alternator or anything. Never a problem with that. The subs in both cars have A/B amps so I won't go there. So that's it, I'm done, Sorry guys : )
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I removed my A-pillar, got some good measurements and I am pretty confident the GB10's would fit fine flush mounted into the factory location after some dremel work. The MT350 could be flush mounted or mounted behind the factory grill for steath.

That said, Crutchfield's Morel sale ends today, I've been torn between going with the AF GB10 & GS60 or the Morel MT350 tweeter (Elate tweeter) and Hybrid MW6 woofer.

If I could afford the GB60 I would dive in with AF but I am already seeing the longer I look the higher my price point has gone. I am comfortable saying my budget has reached its ceiling with the Elate/Hybrid mix.

Like some on this forum, I can be a little OCD at times so AF upfront to go along with my AF subwoofer has some appeal to it but I do like the Morels. I may need to get out early on New Year's Eve and take one more look and listen at the AF and the Hybrid. The AF also helps the budget when it comes time to add my rear fill in later.

I rarely take advantage of return policies on larger purchases, especially internet orders, but I may just have to on this one...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for those that weighed in as I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Morel MT350 tweeter (Elate tweeter) and Hybrid MW6 woofer.

Also got my order in with KnuKonceptz for all my wiring needs except my harness.

Last major purchase to make is for all the sound deadening, however, not sure I can wait for the CLD test that Chris is doing.

Time will tell if I made the right choice. I have gone down the rabbit hole and spent far more then I intended when I started this all kicked off by a BF deal on my DSP/AMP

Pretty much brings this thread to a close. Hopefully I can start a new one soon in the Build Log forum...
 
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