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2004 Rav4 JL900/5 NVXvad2 MiniDsp 8x12(Dirac) LPG26NA GS25 RS180-4 Um12
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There’s two pretty different directions I can go.

Install a small enclosure ~6.5 under the dash in the wide corners just above the footrest and the same general area on the passenger side. Right now I’m thinking Dayton classic 6.5 or even 8” subwoofers, I like how they spec. I can get up to.2cf I believe while keeping the woofers wide. This direction will allow me to keep my sail monitors with gs25 and Lpg26na but require an upgrade in 2ch as my NVX 150w/channel is noisy because of garbage rca connection wires that are part of the design.

The other direction is build new sail enclosures for a 4”-5”, probably SB12nrx. I can probably keep them pretty tidy in the sail area. I should be able to get the response down low enough for my Dayton rss265-44 front footwell subwoofer to crossover cleanly with the sails and take big power and be very clean. If the 4”-5” sails can get low enough maybe I can cross directly to the Dayton um18 I’m planning on replacing my UM12 IB in the cargo floor with. If I can get the 4”-5” to play low enough to crossover to the rear um18 I can just run my JL 900/5 and simplify the overall system greatly. The other advantage of this is it would be really cool, in my opinion.

I would really like to have a very good staging system with only 5 channels. If I would still need the footwell subwoofer I would also need to add a subwoofer amp for the um18, which is not the end of the world. Both ideas are cool and if I can get an 8” under dash I should have very adequate midbass.


 

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The Dayton 8" sub has quite high inductance.. I would look for an 8" (you definitely want the cone area) that is more like a midbass... I know its alot more expensive but a Dynaudio Esotec 8"' or Scan Revelator 8" would be really great.. The Daytons response falls off a cliff at 1k...

I like that idea keeping the frogs. the GS25 i am sure performs pretty good... haven't used that one personally but All my Audiofrog gear has performed great. The gb25 is one of my favorite little mids I've ever used it sounds better than some of my 4" drivers..

If you do use the Dayton 8" subs you will likely need a driver that meets up with it at a lower crossover point than the GS25 can provide.. Like I mentioned Ive never had much luck using a sub as a midbass I always get a muddy sound without a true midbass/woofer up front... i like to play my midbass two octaves or so below where the response falls off... you know well inside its usable passband... if you were to do that with that dayton like staying two octaves below 1khz that would be cutting it at 250hz on the top end... just my experience FWIW
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The Dayton 8" sub has quite high inductance.. I would look for an 8" (you definitely want the cone area) that is more like a midbass... I know its alot more expensive but a Dynaudio Esotec 8"' or Scan Revelator 8" would be really great.. The Daytons response falls off a cliff at 1k...

I like that idea keeping the frogs. the GS25 i am sure performs pretty good... haven't used that one personally but All my Audiofrog gear has performed great. The gb25 is one of my favorite little mids I've ever used it sounds better than some of my 4" drivers..

If you do use the Dayton 8" subs you will likely need a driver that meets up with it at a lower crossover point than the GS25 can provide.. Like I mentioned Ive never had much luck using a sub as a midbass I always get a muddy sound without a true midbass/woofer up front... i like to play my midbass two octaves or so below where the response falls off... you know well inside its usable passband... if you were to do that with that dayton like staying two octaves below 1khz that would be cutting it at 250hz on the top end... just my experience FWIW
Both those woofers look awesome but madisound recommends much more enclosure volume than I think can be tastefully executed in the area available. I’m not sure exactly how much midbass I’m actually going to need, I don’t necessarily want to do some excessive install that’s going to provide more then just some midbass headroom.

I do like the idea of having extension past what I think I need for a smooth xover and possibly maneuvering around and response anomalies. I’ve thought about the anarchy 704 or I’m open to 6”-7” suggestions that might provide enough output, or even an 8” that can work nicely in .25 cf or so. I wouldn’t mind using my Dayton rs180s but ~.25 seems small for them.
 

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Both those woofers look awesome but madisound recommends much more enclosure volume than I think can be tastefully executed in the area available. I’m not sure exactly how much midbass I’m actually going to need, I don’t necessarily want to do some excessive install that’s going to provide more then just some midbass headroom.

I do like the idea of having extension past what I think I need for a smooth xover and possibly maneuvering around and response anomalies. I’ve thought about the anarchy 704 or I’m open to 6”-7” suggestions that might provide enough output, or even an 8” that can work nicely in .25 cf or so. I wouldn’t mind using my Dayton rs180s but ~.25 seems small for them.
Have you considered the Dayton Epique E180HE-44? It's a bit better than the Anarchy.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Have you considered the Dayton Epique E180HE-44? It's a bit better than the Anarchy.
Definitely on my radar, just a little higher priced than I would generally want to spend on midbass drivers. I’m under the impression that mild distortion in the bass frequencies isn’t a huge concern, so I always want to cheap out with bass drivers. I’ve looked into them many times and they definitely fit the enclosure size I can mould neatly under the dash. They’re also on sale currently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The 5-1/2” version has almost the same sensitivity as the 7” and parts express suggests a .25cf ported alignment with f3 of 41hz. I bet I might be able to glass a nice passive radiator setup under the dash. I feel like the radiator can be closer to the center console and not affect stage width resonating around 50-60hz. Probably would need at least a 8” pr. I’m gonna model them and see if they might be worth the coin in my install 👍

Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Number
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
In addition to the midbass location/type of install I’m wondering how much midbass spl might I need for a little headroom. I’m probably going to be satisfied with 500w on a Dayton UM18 IB, and even if I went up to a 1,000w subwoofer amp, it will only be like 3db louder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I’ve been modeling the epiques and ultimax 12” and 18” subwoofers. The epique 7 looks good for what I need and the 5-1/2 would be a more complex bass reflex design then is needed. I’ve heard people talking about throwing gobs of power at the 7” and I’m very close to ordering.
Adding another UM12 on a manifold would be a little cheaper and offers very similar results to just one UM18. Making progress I think.
 

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Also, I would argue that midbass you want low distortion… subwoofer you can get away with it but in my experience a good linear low distortion midbass is the best… subs I’ve had some cheap ones that sounded pretty dang good…
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I’ve heard very good things on the epique- very flat BL curve.
I’ve read and watched a good bit on them, they definitely look great. I ordered two of the 7” and a UM12.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Also, I would argue that midbass you want low distortion… subwoofer you can get away with it but in my experience a good linear low distortion midbass is the best… subs I’ve had some cheap ones that sounded pretty dang good…
I was definitely making assumptions about the midbass distortion thing. It seemed logical that if low bass distortion perception was minimal then midbass would be at least somewhat similar. I should be in good shape then with the epique 7s in sealed enclosures near the kicks. I was always wondering why members were always running nice scans and other high dollar woofers, I probably should have figured it was for a good reason 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

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I’ve been modeling the epiques and ultimax 12” and 18” subwoofers. The epique 7 looks good for what I need and the 5-1/2 would be a more complex bass reflex design then is needed. I’ve heard people talking about throwing gobs of power at the 7” and I’m very close to ordering.
Adding another UM12 on a manifold would be a little cheaper and offers very similar results to just one UM18. Making progress I think.
Just be careful throwing gobs of power at those Epique's if you get them, I lightly fried one of mine while setting the gain, just clipped it a little for less than a second and hurt it. It could have been a manufacturing issue, or maybe the fact that I had previously clipped it on 300 watts, in any case, one survived all of that.
 

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I was definitely making assumptions about the midbass distortion thing. It seemed logical that if low bass distortion perception was minimal then midbass would be at least somewhat similar. I should be in good shape then with the epique 7s in sealed enclosures near the kicks. I was always wondering why members were always running nice scans and other high dollar woofers, I probably should have figured it was for a good reason
I agree with cman about wanting low distortion midbass. There seem to be only 2 "affordable" options, the Anarchy 704 and the Epique 7", some of the less "affordable" options don't measure up to those specs-wise, but I'm sure they sound great. I think the Purifi drivers are probably the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Right now I’ll be running them on a NVX 220x2 and just deal with the crummy connections due to their cheap 6” snap in wires. Once I get over spending $500 on midwoofers and another subwoofer I’ll be getting the 75x4, 250x2 alpine 6ch for a one amp front stage.
I’m unsure how loud I’m even going to need them to be. Probably pretty loud to stand up to 2 IB 12s with 500-1,000 watts. I’m getting excited honestly, earlier this year I was complaining about my Dayton rs180s not being stout enough and also some response anomalies right where I want to cross to my gs25’s because of door mounted midbass.
 

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Right now I’ll be running them on a NVX 220x2 and just deal with the crummy connections due to their cheap 6” snap in wires. Once I get over spending $500 on midwoofers and another subwoofer I’ll be getting the 75x4, 250x2 alpine 6ch for a one amp front stage.
I’m unsure how loud I’m even going to need them to be. Probably pretty loud to stand up to 2 IB 12s with 500-1,000 watts. I’m getting excited honestly, earlier this year I was complaining about my Dayton rs180s not being stout enough and also some response anomalies right where I want to cross to my gs25’s because of door mounted midbass.
You know the Epique's are dual 4 ohm voice coils, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok, just making sure you knew, that dvc can complicate things.
I haven’t yet sorted out the 2,4,8 ohm amp damping thing yet but I think being 2 ohm should be mostly a benefit.
 
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