DIYMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

Midbass Phenomenon

5K views 43 replies 13 participants last post by  JaySea20 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey Everyone,

So I spent the last weekend sealing and dampening my doors. 5 sqft of Aluminum and 40sqft of deadener and I was super impressed in how it changed the sound coming from my stock Toyota 6" x 9"s. I was thinking that if those sounded that good, the Dayton RS225's I'm gonna force in there will sound FREAKIN AMAZING! But, lo and behold, The car audio gods had another plan for me...

Before I go any further, the build is HERE.

I installed the RS225's and they sound like they are free air. There is almost no output... I'm super frustrated.
They are on a JL Slash 300/2
EDIT: Its not polarity. I never even installed the second one

:unsure:
- Confused Jay
 
#2 ·
Because those daytons were not designed for a car door (large sealed enclosure, pretty much IB). They were designed for small vented or small sealed enclosures. Its very rare that you'll find a raw driver/home audio midbass that works well in a car door.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
#4 ·
Because those daytons were not designed for a car door (large sealed enclosure, pretty much IB). They were designed for small vented or small sealed enclosures. Its very rare that you'll find a raw driver/home audio midbass that works well in a car door.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
You're right. But, there have been lots of people that rave about the performance of Daytons ( especially the RS180 ) in this application. What are they doing different than I am?

Also, do you have a recommendation for what would work well without breaking the bank?

- Jay
 
#3 · (Edited)
Your oem speakers are likely WAY more efficient then the Daytons.
and by not installing the second one, you are already losing half your output.

Of course if what SkizeR says its true ( and there is no reason not to believe him) then more importantly the Daytons are the wrong choice for your application.
 
#8 ·
Ok. In all seriousness. What would be a way to get my midbass right. I would like it to play between 60hz and probably 180 or so. If it means different drivers, then so be it. Do you think I can get away with 6.5's? I've never had great luck with midbass.
 
#13 ·
I personally wouldn't run 6.5's below 80Hz. But, that's just me. Have you considered Frog GS690's for your application? They were built for the job. Other options exist. These are just the first that came into mind.

Ge0
Or the new GS 8's that will be out in a couple weeks

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
#11 ·
From my experience, you can't, at least from all of the installs I've done (maybe I'm doing it wrong all these years?). The OEM drivers are made for the vehicle, whereas aftermarket drivers, even car audio specific drivers and component sets, I have never once been able to extract any bass from the doors, ever!

Edit
Unless I boost the bass boost and EQ all the way up, bass is non-existent.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 
#14 ·
I have considered AF GS690's. I've just never been the guy that goes the easy route. That one's proven and it fits... lol! It makes too much sense... Same reason that I didnt just buy the tacotunes setup. I'm gonna have to think about this one for a bit. I might be slingin resin again this weekend.

-Jay
 
#15 · (Edited)
I have considered AF GS690's. I've just never been the guy that goes the easy route. That one's proven and it fits... lol! It makes too much sense... Same reason that I didnt just buy the tacotunes setup. I'm gonna have to think about this one for a bit. I might be slingin resin again this weekend.

-Jay
Well, if that is the case:


These are nasty little 8" drivers:
275249


275250


Zac has a few sets left. Or, you can wait for the Frogs SkiZer was mentioning.

Ge0
 
#17 ·
I wouldn’t be doing any midbass in doors I wanted to play to 60hz... not gonna happen with the typical nulls you get in every car door I’ve ever played with and likely why the rest of the spectrum will get louder and the nulls won’t as much so the new speakers will likely sound worse... if it’s left hand drive and auto why not build kick panels for the new drivers, the response will be way, way nicer...
 
#30 ·
I should have taken pictures. But, I placed the 8's in the floorboard. And even in a full size Tundra, it takes up 1/3 of the floor space. Too big. I would have to go with smaller drivers for kicks...

ZAC has a set of AP8's on sale for a really good price. It's worth it to buy a set and just see if you like.

If you are on the fence about it I have a set I would let you evaluate if you paid for shipping both ways (maybe $40). No rush to get them back. I have 3 other sets I want to evaluate first.

Ge0
I think im gonna go ahead and purchase a set. If I dont like them, Im sure I can re-purpose them.

Here is an old 8inch midbass comparison. The OP had the same issue you did with the Dayton installed IB in a door. I'd recommend the sls 8s if you can fit them.

That is right on par with what I experienced. But in an IB config, they were REALLY bad. I would hate it if I spent 20+ hours on door pods and they still sucked.

This is weird. I always thought the Daytons were raw driver favorites back when this forum used raw drivers? Many more used the RS 180 over the 225.
I had the same impression...
 
#18 · (Edited)
I don't want 6.5's. that's why I bought 8". But these are going to be a tough fit. And like I said. They suck. Or I suck. Or something is wrong. Either way, not the sound I expected.

I have a feeling that it is the front and rear waves interacting through the holes I can't seal. I bet if I punch a hole in the door panel and actually have the front outside oh the door panel, they would sound better. I'm just nervous about that much modification.
 
#22 ·
Here is an old 8inch midbass comparison. The OP had the same issue you did with the Dayton installed IB in a door. I'd recommend the sls 8s if you can fit them.

 
#23 · (Edited)
Midbass is definitely the most challenging to get right or even decent. In my very limited experience, the best luck I've had is with the peerless SLS 6. The reason? It's basically a subwoofer. (It's also not good at IB).

I could cross them at 30Hz for a lot of music. I would move the crossover up to 50 or 63 at times when it did struggle, but kept sneaking it back down to 30Hz. Power requirement isn't crazy, neither is it fragile.

I am leaning toward trying the SLS 8 as suggested above. I currently have kicks already, housing a 6.5 + tweeter, so I'm looking at midrange changes to put on the apillar so I can remove my kick and make a new one strictly for midbass.

I am starting to believe midbass doesn't belong in doors. Enclosures only. Enclosure mounted on door, sure. A case could be made for IB-designed midbass but how many of those exist and readily available for sale?

Edit: multiple edits

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
Midbass is definitely the most challenging to get right or even decent. In my very limited experience, the best luck I've had is with the peerless SLS 6. The reason? It's basically a subwoofer. (It's also not good at IB).

I could cross them at 30Hz for a lot of music. I would move the crossover up to 50 or 63 at times when it did struggle, but kept sneaking it back down to 30Hz. Power requirement isn't crazy, neither is it fragile.

I am leaning toward trying the SLS 8 as suggested above. I currently have kicks already, housing a 6.5 + tweeter, so I'm looking at midrange changes to put on the apillar so I can remove my kick and make a new one strictly for midbass.

I am starting to believe midbass doesn't belong in doors. Enclosures only. Enclosure mounted on door, sure. A case could be made for IB-designed midbass but how many of those exist and readily available for sale?

Edit: multiple edits

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Even with an enclosure mounted on a door you will get phase dips, if you could measure a door mounted midbass and see the phase response you’d never put midbass in doors ever again! I will put my laptop on later and show you a comparison between door mounted midbass vs floor mounted midbass under the front edge of the seat... one looks like a picture perfect phase response with a few blips... one looks like something you’d never want ever in a car/room/anywhere...
 
#33 ·
Yeah, no. Not for me. I'm hesitant to cut off the bottom section of my window track... much less something like that. I think I wanna keep my speakers inside the vehicle. I'm not radical enough, YET, to start cutting through my floorboard.
 
#37 ·
Interestingly I’ve just had another look at the data and I can get the sub timing a whole lot better with some unorthodox disance and phase settings...

275405


the orange line needs to be made further away distance wise as it’s way to early, more distance (Or more delay on the midbass) would line the orange line up, of it gets it parallel with the midbass phase traces the timing is on point... then you can adjust the phase to rotate the line up or down as a whole and get the two to overlay like the blue and green do from 40 to 60 as an example 👍🏼 It’s very revealing seeing phase information while tuning to get time and phase adjusted to perfection... but it also shows how wrong the tape can be due to phase characteristics of the car and the drivers involved which throw a massive curve ball into the mix...

I hope this helps people understand a little bit more about why timing and phase is way more complex than a tape measure if you wish to go to extra lengths to get stuff bang on...

I will add that phase generally doesn’t need to get touched between identical drivers but to match say midbass to midrange you then may need to adjust phase on one driver set or another as pairs so the identical speakers still match
 
#39 ·
Thanks for the advice. Sounds like a great choice. But, I have been talking with Zac and I'm going all out. I'm getting a set of the AD w800neos
 
#44 ·
Ive started building a sub enclosure for a single 8" that will tuck underneath the glovebox. I think between the neo's, the Front sub, and my low listening volume, I will be happy.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top