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Discussion Starter #1
I’m getting ready to swap out some Morels up front with GB25’s / 10’s. The car is a 2015 Camry 3 way active front stage. I’m just looking for advice or opinions on where to mount these...(I had to send my KENWOOD off for a warranty repair and who knows when I’ll get it back. The factory HU is back installed currently using a line converter to get a signal to the DSP. So I’m not going to trust any measurements for speaker placement from the factory HU). Just kinda wanting to make a decision and get this done. Tweeters are in the sails and 2.5” Morels in the dash locations under the factory grilles.
Im getting nulls around 1500k and peaks around it from reflections. I have several thoughts on mounting locations and don’t really want to spend a lot of time testing. Open to advice.
-Mount the tweeters in the same place and bring the midranges closer to the windshield. And angle them slightly
-make new pods out of the factory dash grilles that’d house the midrange and tweeters on axis
-vertical fiberglassed A pillars
Thanks. I know this is a dime a dozen question but i don’t really want to test locations
 

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2007 Toyota Tundra Double Cab
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Your tweeter location is probably fine. I would bet your only having trouble with the mid. This decision, for me, hinges on one aspect first. If it needs to go back to factory in the future? If so, the cost of new a pillars etc need to be a considered factor. With the DSP nowdays, you can work with less than ideal placement. I assume you have no problem working with fiberglass... If thats the case, a set of pods for the mids would be alot better. especially if you can get the within 30 degrees of axis. Dash or Pillar should work.

Off topic: Are kicks an option?

-Jay

P.S. I just got through with pods on the dash and am very happy with them. Although in a Tundra, the distance is a bit further. Photos in Log in Signature
 

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I would do it in the order you have it listed until you get the results you're looking for:

1 -Mount the tweeters in the same place and bring the midranges closer to the windshield. And angle them slightly
2 -make new pods out of the factory dash grilles that’d house the midrange and tweeters on axis
3 -vertical fiberglassed A pillars

Start off the easy way and go from there. Sail panels are probably the best spot for tweeters and mids can work fine firing into the windshield (it's just not ideal).
 

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You need to consider reflections And where the midrange presents to your ears... good staging is not a matter of just fitting speakers where they fit

I suggest fitting the mids in an easy location Initially, then seeing where left and right stage boundary’s are, then fitting the tweeter so it matches the perceived location of those boundary’s if they are acceptable

For you to get pinpoint imaging and staging you need the left and right boundary’s to be identical for both mids and tweeters (midbass are not as critical as we get our main cues for width, depth etc from mid/tweeter freqs
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Your tweeter location is probably fine. I would bet your only having trouble with the mid. This decision, for me, hinges on one aspect first. If it needs to go back to factory in the future? If so, the cost of new a pillars etc need to be a considered factor. With the DSP nowdays, you can work with less than ideal placement. I assume you have no problem working with fiberglass... If thats the case, a set of pods for the mids would be alot better. especially if you can get the within 30 degrees of axis. Dash or Pillar should work.

Off topic: Are kicks an option?

-Jay

P.S. I just got through with pods on the dash and am very happy with them. Although in a Tundra, the distance is a bit further. Photos in Log in Signature
I could fit them in the kicks with some modification. Just never considered moving them lower. I have no issue replacing pillars or grilles if I sold, but I plan on keeping this car for awhile. I am leaning towards fiberglassing the mids into the factory dash grilles similar to yours. Nice job with those. Did you have any trouble tuning the midranges?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I would do it in the order you have it listed until you get the results you're looking for:

1 -Mount the tweeters in the same place and bring the midranges closer to the windshield. And angle them slightly
2 -make new pods out of the factory dash grilles that’d house the midrange and tweeters on axis
3 -vertical fiberglassed A pillars

Start off the easy way and go from there. Sail panels are probably the best spot for tweeters and mids can work fine firing into the windshield (it's just not ideal).
Thanks. I’ve heard people can get good results firing into the windshield taking a few things into account. Firing into the windshield vs on axis is my biggest hang up. Guess I should test lol
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You need to consider reflections And where the midrange presents to your ears... good staging is not a matter of just fitting speakers where they fit

I suggest fitting the mids in an easy location Initially, then seeing where left and right stage boundary’s are, then fitting the tweeter so it matches the perceived location of those boundary’s if they are acceptable

For you to get pinpoint imaging and staging you need the left and right boundary’s to be identical for both mids and tweeters (midbass are not as critical as we get our main cues for width, depth etc from mid/tweeter freqs
Thank you. That makes sense. I think as is my tweeters may have a bit wider presence than the midranges
 

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I have a similar setup in my Subaru WRX and I believe some models of Toyota's and Subaru's share the same audio components (especially the dash-mounted midrange speakers). I chose to stick with the factory location for the midrange. I have GB10's and 25's also. I came up with a mount/enclosure design for the 25's and also a mount for the tweeters (3D printed out of ABS). With a little modification to the dash and the factory speaker grills (I cut out holes and wrapped in "UV resistant" speaker grill cloth), I was able to hide both below the factory speaker grills. I am still in the tuning process, but I am pretty happy with the results so far.

275624


275623


275625


275629


275630


Do you have pics of what it looks like under the factory dash speaker grills?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have a similar setup in my Subaru WRX and I believe some models of Toyota's and Subaru's share the same audio components (especially the dash-mounted midrange speakers). I chose to stick with the factory location for the midrange. I have GB10's and 25's also. I came up with a mount/enclosure design for the 25's and also a mount for the tweeters (3D printed out of ABS). With a little modification to the dash and the factory speaker grills (I cut out holes and wrapped in "UV resistant" speaker grill cloth), I was able to hide both below the factory speaker grills. I am still in the tuning process, but I am pretty happy with the results so far.

Do you have pics of what it looks like under the factory dash speaker grills?
looks really nice. Yeah, dash location looks pretty similar. I can get a picture later
ECA90D3C-7305-435D-BEC8-8FCF16BDAEBA.jpeg

This is my “Modelo box template” lol
97B83CA7-A11C-46F4-BEAE-45A65E6A991F.jpeg
Then made these adapters out of 1/4” ABS. I do like the sound of the midranges up there. Even under the factory grille. The biggest issue is I think they’re too far from the glass. There’s a big null around 1500k in both and I notice the sound probably being restricted a bit by that grille. For example if I lean my head a few inches to the left the sound from the midrange is much more noticeable
 

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Thank you. That makes sense. I think as is my tweeters may have a bit wider presence than the midranges
You need the two too line up pretty much otherwise you won’t get phase coherence and the image spacing to line up... if the centre is accurate and sitting on top of one another and left is in two distinct places you will then have left of centre spaced apart, the same goes for right also, our brain may place sounds as coming from a spot other than where the speaker is due to reflections for example 👍🏼 See my build thread for the extremes ive gone to to get the left mid as far out as I can get it...
 

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If you're good with CAD or know someone who is, it's worth a shot if you want to keep things "stealth" (which was one of my goals). I was a complete novice with CAD and was able to fumble my way through it using Autodesk Fusion 360 and lots of YouTube vids!. I wound up sending my designs out for printing because I don't own a 3D printer (and didn't want to buy one at ~$700+). In the end, Audodesk Fusion is a free download and I probably spent around $150 in 3D printing prototypes/final designs. Final designs were all 60% infill ABS.

I wanted to try the factory location before I went "crazy" tearing up pillars or adding sail pods and I wanted the tweeters right next to the mids. My GB25's are 4" away from the windshield and the tweeters are closer to the corners of the dash about 3" away from windshield. The tweeters and midranges are exactly 3" apart center to center.

Like I said, I am still in the tuning process. This summer heat wave has set me back a bit. I don't have a garage and without sitting in the car with the engine running and A/C full blast messing with my measurements, it gets 100+ in there pretty quickly. Having drivers up on the dash definitely does some funky things to your response without processing power. You'll definitely need a 30+ band parametric DSP. Below are some of my REW plots:

GB10/25 in the dash no EQ

275672


This is after EQ, but these are some older measurements. I have since started over with the tuning process and can update this post a bit later.

275673


This is my most recent tweeter plot against a JBL (Andy) House Curve (as of yesterday - 1/6th smoothing). I've got a little more work I want to do to them in a few areas, but I'm almost where I want to be with the tweeters. I'll move to the GB25's next.

275674
 

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looks really nice. Yeah, dash location looks pretty similar. I can get a picture later View attachment 275633
This is my “Modelo box template” lol
View attachment 275634 Then made these adapters out of 1/4” ABS. I do like the sound of the midranges up there. Even under the factory grille. The biggest issue is I think they’re too far from the glass. There’s a big null around 1500k in both and I notice the sound probably being restricted a bit by that grille. For example if I lean my head a few inches to the left the sound from the midrange is much more noticeable
If your factory midranges were anything like most of the other Toyota/Scion/Subaru midranges (Tundra, BR-Z, lots of models), I am assuming they probably looked something like this:

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My design incorporated the overall shape of the factory midrange flange with an enclosure and a mounting surface designed for an AF GB25. I am not sure how much depth you have in the dash, but I had over 3" to play with. My design ended up being exactly .2 cu liters (verified by filling with water). I also made an IB design, which was my original plan before deciding to try an enclosure. If you've got a 3" midrange up there now and go with a GB25, you may just have some room to play with to experiment putting the tweeters up there also. I had some clearance issues with the factory grills and my GB10's, which is why I wound up designing a mount for the tweeters that is like a "cup". This dropped the tweeter about 5mm lower to give me room to put the factory grill back on. I spent a lot of time designing those damn things! 😅

275676


Your Toyota looks very similar to my WRX.

275677
 

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@Frequentflyer very nice! I know when crossing sub to midbass you get a 6db rise when acoustically in phase at the crossover frequency. Should that also happen between mid and tweeter? Dave
Rarely, but if you get 4db you are doing extremely well... however it’s not the end of the world, even if you got it better it would frequently be worse at other frequencys with all the phase issues bouncing about due to short wavelengths concerned
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You need the two too line up pretty much otherwise you won’t get phase coherence and the image spacing to line up... if the centre is accurate and sitting on top of one another and left is in two distinct places you will then have left of centre spaced apart, the same goes for right also, our brain may place sounds as coming from a spot other than where the speaker is due to reflections for example 👍🏼 See my build thread for the extremes ive gone to to get the left mid as far out as I can get it...
Thanks. I’ll check it out
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Frequent flyer’s printed mid enclosures are hard to ignore. At least demo your tweeters more on axis, higher on the A-pillar or even sail.
I could try the tweets more on axis. They are aimed at the opposite headrests. I’m not opposed to moving the tweeters to the a pillars or dash as well
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If you're good with CAD or know someone who is, it's worth a shot if you want to keep things "stealth" (which was one of my goals). I was a complete novice with CAD and was able to fumble my way through it using Autodesk Fusion 360 and lots of YouTube vids!. I wound up sending my designs out for printing because I don't own a 3D printer (and didn't want to buy one at ~$700+). In the end, Audodesk Fusion is a free download and I probably spent around $150 in 3D printing prototypes/final designs. Final designs were all 60% infill ABS.

I wanted to try the factory location before I went "crazy" tearing up pillars or adding sail pods and I wanted the tweeters right next to the mids. My GB25's are 4" away from the windshield and the tweeters are closer to the corners of the dash about 3" away from windshield. The tweeters and midranges are exactly 3" apart center to center.

Like I said, I am still in the tuning process. This summer heat wave has set me back a bit. I don't have a garage and without sitting in the car with the engine running and A/C full blast messing with my measurements, it gets 100+ in there pretty quickly. Having drivers up on the dash definitely does some funky things to your response without processing power. You'll definitely need a 30+ band parametric DSP. Below are some of my REW plots:

GB10/25 in the dash no EQ

View attachment 275672

This is after EQ, but these are some older measurements. I have since started over with the tuning process and can update this post a bit later.

View attachment 275673

This is my most recent tweeter plot against a JBL (Andy) House Curve (as of yesterday - 1/6th smoothing). I've got a little more work I want to do to them in a few areas, but I'm almost where I want to be with the tweeters. I'll move to the GB25's next.

View attachment 275674
I’m using a TWK 88 which is only 10 band. The nulls you’re getting look pretty similar to mine but you got them flattened out pretty nice it looks like
 
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