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From like 2005 or 2006 in my Ford 150. I wouldn't do it again. You can get much better sound with speakers in different locations. The tweeters is definitely in the wrong place in that set up, but the mid being there isn't much better.

 

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Andy can you extrapolate on why the F150 was so bad with A-Pillar mids and tweets. And what better alternatives are there?

My Nissan Titan has very little real estate in the kicks and there is a huge console (which is not as bad in the 150 from this pic). But I have huge A-pillars and a very deep dash.

I am only interested in a single seat setup.

Jim
 

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^^ that location seems to work for me :)
 

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The reflections off the glass, the reflections off the pillar, the limited stage width. The pure amount of tuning it takes for it to sound good. all of those are negatives and more.

The tweeter in that set up was causing a phase problem with the mid. Dave Brooks fixed this issue in his truck by moving the tweeter on the same plane as the mid. But even then you fight limited stage width (always inside the pillars), or limited depth---and the sitting position to stage is in your face.

Seriously it took months to tune that set up. From playing with the air flow inside the enclosure to get the speaker to play low enough to blend with the midbass, to getting the amplitude alignment and time alignment to work together to get the imaging right. Then working with the reflections. I ended up with about 2-3" of towels on the dash of that truck to get the imaging better. Tonality wise was a fight because of the reflections.

It took about 4 hours to reach the point the truck was at after a year with kickpanels in my car. Just in testing pure kicks in my truck I got close to where I was after a year with that set up.



I now have a mid and tweet in the kick of that truck. So much better. So much easier to tune. It sounded sweet just in testing. I still haven't gotten to full on tuning of that set up, but I liked it more--and it wasn't offensive from the passenger seat.

I've heard numerous apillar set ups. Only a very few did I actually like. Dave Brook's set up I loved, but the listening position to stage was not the greatest--and there was no way to fix it. The others that I did like the owners had spent a stupid amount of time getting them right. Building several variations, tuning, tuning by experts, etc. I've heard more apillar set ups that make me want to kick a puppy than I have that I would want in my car.

Doitor's truck was also good the last time I heard it---but look at how many variations of those pillars he has built. He has his seats moved back about 6", and he, Scott Buwalda and a few others I believe have spent a LONG time tuning that set up. Don't just look at the picture of his pillars above---look at his entire build log. Look at how much they change. I'd roll dice he isn't even showing all that he is doing to that pillar to make it work.

I know there are several things I did to my pillars I only shown a few people until I quit competing in the truck. I may have posted pics since then--not sure if I have or not. The backside of my apillar was so important it wasn't funny. I spent a month working on it.

It isn't as easy as throwing a mid in the apillar and walking away. You are going to spend months getting it right. If you don't---it isn't going to sound nearly as good as mids in the kick or even the door.

If I were doing a pure one seat car again--I would put the midbass in the floor vented to the outside of the vehicle (because midbass causes rattles in the door--I hate rattles), the midrange in the door, and the tweeter in the sail panel. Or if you believe you can stop rattles in teh door, I'd put it all in the doors with the tweet in the sail panel.


EDIT: that console is big because it had a JL Audio 12w6v2 in it. Fired to the rear. Sounded better than firing to the front---who would have thought.
 

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^^ that location seems to work for me :)
Not saying it doesn't "work" (depending on your definition).

You copied Brooks, who modified my set up, that I stole from Scott Buwalda's red 240 (the first install when he first debuted the L3 at Elite Summer Nationals in like 2004 or 2005). EDIT: I should have paid more attention to Scott's Red 240 install at that time. He had the tweeter in the right location to avoid the phase issue I fought. I'm a tard. :(

so while I haven't heard your truck, I've heard Brook's truck. It works awesome in his set up. His listening position to stage though is not nearly as good as it would be with the midrange in the kicks. it also has some other limitations---which is why if you follow Brook's truck he keeps playing with them. Hell he even showed up a show two years ago with an L6 in the Apillar that was pure dipole.

The apillars have a lot of limitations. They can work--but you have to put a LOT of time in them. You can get there a lot faster in the kicks.

Look at Scott's Red 240. The first version---apillar mids. Second version--midbass and midrange in the floor.
 

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then nevermind--remove Doiter from the apillar sounds good list. It just got smaller.


I never looked (other than at the seat rails) just assumed it was the same as on here.
 

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Well Andy, not to argue, but Brooks's seats are not extended, but Jorge's are. I have tried kicks in the truck and it does'nt sound good to me. you sit too forward and upright imo. Between kicks and pillars in my truck, I'll take the pillars without a question. I have never had width issues. I have been scored very well with most judges claiming the left stage is a couple inches beyond the pillar, and the right several inches beyond :) I do feel that your first mock up with the tweeters not on the same plane did create issues, especially width, but on the same plane I have had great success, and the width was not limited to the pillars :)

To each his own I guess ;)
 
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