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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
So have you had a chance for any listening impressions yet Ryan?
I'll get to some today.... was overdue for a wash/wax. Last service with the car 10 days ago ended up with some paint scratches due to the "complimentary wash"..... the detailer had to polish the whole car to get them out. Had him deliver it sans wax as I didn't want it masking anything.
 

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Class G/H amps are said to be in the realm of D as far as efficiency goes, but with the "sound" of A/B.

According to my Arc manual documentation Class H appears to be somewhere between AB and D efficiency-wise, and so does the sound in my opinion. Not quite AB, but better than D for sound quality, and not quite D, but better than AB for efficiency. I have both KS and SE.
 

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You are assuming that all the topology is identical other than the power supply.

What you would need to do to draw a valid conclusion would be to listen to two amps, one with A/B power supply topology, one with Class G or H topology, and with all other sections using identical topology.

I don't think you are doing that. I don't think the Mini uses identical output topologies as other Arc amps, for example. It might... but do we know that?
 

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You mean to make sure the right one sounds "elfy"?
No, FoxPro, there are comments above drawing conclusions about 'Class H sound" relative to 'Class AB sound".

I am not talking about comparing these two small amps in my previous post, but about people who are comparing these minis to larger amps and then saying that difference must be a Class H difference.

I personally doubt that Class H has a sound independent from Class AB... unless you count size as a metric.
 

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According to my Arc manual documentation Class H appears to be somewhere between AB and D efficiency-wise, and so does the sound in my opinion. Not quite AB, but better than D for sound quality, and not quite D, but better than AB for efficiency. I have both KS and SE.
This is the comment I was replying to... should have quoted it.
 

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My $0.02:

It's no mystery that Nikola == Arc == Robert Zeff, and that there are "clones" of many Arc Audio amp models.

In one of the old threads here on DIYMA discussing the Arc Minis (and, inevitably, the Elfs), one of the Arc distributors (and maybe someone from Arc, too? I can't remember) made a huge stink about how the Elfs weren't as good, don't use the same special magical SQ "chip" that the Arcs do, weren't supposed to be selling in the US, etc. etc. etc., obviously getting their panties into a GIANT wad, and obviously not being 100% forthcoming.

So sure, maybe the Arc uses "higher ends" parts with tighter tolerances, etc., but clearly, it's the same schematic and the same amp. The fact that the Arc-affiliated douches in that thread were not 100% forthcoming makes me trust them 0%, and the fact that they got their panties into such GIANT WADS makes me even more suspicious that the Elfs are literally the same damn thing.

Well, here's one of the threads I was thinking of, any way: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/42352-new-arc-mini-125-2-a-2.html#post502675. Heh, I was even trying to take Arc's side. Can't say I would any more.

ca90ss on 7-24-2008 said:
Take for example the Clarion, Cerwin Vega ,Eton and whatever other amps that shared the same layout as the older Arc amps. I remember hearing claims that the Arc used "better" or "tighter tolerance" parts but when pushed for proof nobody was ever able to provide proof to back up their claims. Seems like the same situation all over again.
teehee
 

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If you had an amp assembled by a third party, what's to stop said third party from copying the design and building a clone? It's like the "replica" wheels you can get for your car. Sure they look the same and in most cases perform the same, but ARE they the same? I dunno.
 

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Arc == Robert Zeff == Nikola Engineering, which is clearly who builds the Elf.

Replica wheels are usually cast instead of forged. There can't possibly be a fundamental difference that large, in this case. :)
 

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From what I see in the picture, The arc uses those rectangular yellow caps on the XO board, this is the kind of caps that is used on expensive amps, while the elf uses ordinary red colored mylar or poly caps, used for cheap amps, also used on clock radio.

The difference is the tolerance and the type of the components used, the more expensive components have tighter tolerance ,and retains it's value better on high temperature and over a longer time than cheap ones.

I cant speculate on the sound quality though.
 

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Arc == Robert Zeff == Nikola Engineering, which is clearly who builds the Elf.

Replica wheels are usually cast instead of forged. There can't possibly be a fundamental difference that large, in this case. :)
Nikola designs, not builds.

And what makes you think even a moderate number of OEM wheels are forged? Almost NO OEM wheels are forged.
 

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Nikola designs, not builds.

And what makes you think even a moderate number of OEM wheels are forged? Almost NO OEM wheels are forged.
Sorry, designs. What are the chances that the build house is different though, vs. the chances that it's the same?

Obviously, most OEM wheels are not forged, and I was referring to Volk/Work replicas made by Rota, etc.
 
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