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I would like to know where people are placing their microphone in relationship to their drivers seat or relationship between passenger and driver if that’s better


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The first position should be directly between your ears

The rest of them are kind of whatever start with a small box and make it bigger and find a averaging cube that you like

The smaller the box the more tight the average will be, the bigger the box the more lively the sound will be at the end because it will get more of the room

so you’re still looking for a dead accuracy go with a small box if you’re looking for overall better sound quality for yourself and everyone else go with a bigger box

That is without explaining things to technically
 

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maybe shoot minidsp an email, as I suspect the higher-ups aren't that interested in the forum on their site, tho devteam certainly pitches in :)

This is kind of a big deal and needs to have a link to the document on the product page, possibly the manual? a link that is, live document and all :cool:


Bravo on the guide otherwise, really clever work in there.

Also, in 6.b.ii.4.a of the guide, "do not apply a hpf" .... is that to say, bypass the hpf we set in 4.e.iii.1.b ?
they watch the Fourn , and I have a connect w mini and they have reached out

they are slow to do things , but when they do they go all in …..

They also have to adhere to Dirac “recommendation” so ….. it’s more a Dirac thing actually and Dirac is developing a multi-way tune
So that’s that I suppose
 

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Interesting last point you snuck in. Will be interesting to see how that works in a car, based on the assumption that it would be primarily developed for the home market.
 

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The first position should be directly between your ears

The rest of them are kind of whatever start with a small box and make it bigger and find a averaging cube that you like

The smaller the box the more tight the average will be, the bigger the box the more lively the sound will be at the end because it will get more of the room

so you’re still looking for a dead accuracy go with a small box if you’re looking for overall better sound quality for yourself and everyone else go with a bigger box

That is without explaining things to technically
Makes sense thank you. The one thing I’m confused about is I put it 2-4 measurements behind the chair a little based off the illustration because it seemed like it was saying do some behind you, it didn’t sounds good so I deleted those measurements
 

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Makes sense thank you. The one thing I’m confused about is I put it 2-4 measurements behind the chair a little based off the illustration because it seemed like it was saying do some behind you, it didn’t sounds good so I deleted those measurements
Yeah the box kind of shows a 3-D looking thing where the rear ones look behind you but they should be right above your head and right at your shoulders

I will make my rear box smaller ( head size ) in my front box about 16” ,

I like to use the couch with tightly focused

and the two side measurements I get into the passenger area for the right, and then for the left directly on the glass one low and one high
 

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Greatly appreciate the guide and everybody's contributions to it.

I have a few questions:

Why the do you recommend a 1.25 x fs BW12 protective crossover. Why BW12 over LR12?

How will the protective crossover BW12 affect the tweeters phase and actual crossover if using LR24 electrically?

With an Audiofrog GB15, this puts the protective crossover at about 1480hz really close to the recommended minimum crossover of 1800hz.

Can I just use a sharper slope at one octave lower then desired crossover frequency if the measurements are not to loud?

I ask all this because it was my impression from the manual that Dirac cannot correct for phase through the crossover when using separate Dirac channels per driver vs 1 channel left drivers and 1 channel right drivers.

I figured two different crossover types BW12 and LR24 on the same driver at different frequencies would mess up phase.

Thank you.
 
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:oops::oops::oops:

I just finished my first successful Dirac tune and WOW. I am impressed and excited! I didn't think it would go so well on the first try. Detail is the best I've heard in any of my systems to date, imaging is good and the stage is huge. I am hearing more resolution in songs I've listened to hundreds of times on many different stereos. Vocals sound more real. Midbass has more clarity. High hats sizzle above my head like a sonic veil (no exaggeration - it's incredible!) and it sounds like there is a kick drum inside my engine bay haha. I can't wait to continue messing with this technology!! I'm doubtful I'd ever be able to get a tune like this manually.

Side note: one thing I find weird about the 8x12DL is that the sin sweeps are fed directly from your computer to the DSP, never passing through the head unit. As such, any coloration in your system upstream of the DSP is not accounted for.

I want to give some feedback on the Guide here too. Overall I found it strikes a good balance between completeness and conciseness.

My front stage is 2-way, just midbass and tweeters, so I adapted the guide accordingly. In the Dirac Channels Configuration step, I used "Small/Bass Managed" for the mids (step 4fii) since neither woofer nor midrange seems appropriate. Not sure how much of a difference this makes. I think it would be useful to remind users here to set unused channels to Unsued in this step since Dirac will error otherwise.

In step 5diii, it could be useful to be explicit about what meter should be monitored to hit the -20 to -25dB target. In this case I think it's the mic gain's meter.

When loading the target curve in 5gi, it would be useful to add that the target curve should be applied to All Groups.

Setting the curtains is a little subjective and some users may find some more guidance by example useful at that step. Same goes for selecting crossover points.
 

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Greatly appreciate the guide and everybody's contributions to it.

I have a few questions:

Why the do you recommend a 1.25 x fs BW12 protective crossover. Why BW12 over LR12?

How will the protective crossover BW12 affect the tweeters phase and actual crossover if using LR24 electrically?

With an Audiofrog GB15, this puts the protective crossover at about 1480hz really close to the recommended minimum crossover of 1800hz.

Can I just use a sharper slope at one octave lower then desired crossover frequency if the measurements are not to loud?

I ask all this because it was my impression from the manual that Dirac cannot correct for phase through the crossover when using separate Dirac channels per driver vs 1 channel left drivers and 1 channel right drivers.

I figured two different crossover types BW12 and LR24 on the same driver at different frequencies would mess up phase.

Thank you.

I don’t think anyone is recommending a BW or a LR, I think it all depends on what your system goals and speaks and power are…

The LR12 or BW12 are fantastic Crossovers, I love both! (In a complementary setting)

I would stick with LRs in a multi-way, except in the case of a 4 way active I would use one (ONLY ONE) BW alignment.

Quadratic crossover s are good for highly reflective environments. You don’t want 90-180-270 tho , so keep it LRs except one . So I would use one between the midbass and midrange…. The low pass is lagging so you’ll have to accommodate for the 90deg in the sub (or the tweet depending which polarity invert you use if 2nd order) , but that’s easy peasy (it’s the lowest speaker in the chain so simple delay you can eat up the group delay of the shift of the adjacent crossover and get back to 0 (or 180)

Or just use all LRs
 

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I am just not understanding how two crossovers at two different frequencies combine to affect phase or they don't?

Wouldn't I want my protective crossover 1 octave below the desired crossover so that Dirac can correct 1 octave down?

So maybe I could try a 900hz hp LR24.

After Dirac set the 1800hz LR24.

Edit: for anybody reading this using the crossover on the amplifier works just fine.
 
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Actually Andy at AF ( @GotFrogs ) has has a fantastic explanation, here is a link… his explanation is simple and eloquent… I absolutely love how he explains it here

He doesn’t go into the GD that is in the low pass, but if you pay attention you should get it, because he does say enough to put one n one together


 

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Any idea on whether or not this methodology would work in the home environment provided all drivers are likewise independently powered?
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
maybe shoot minidsp an email, as I suspect the higher-ups aren't that interested in the forum on their site, tho devteam certainly pitches in :)

This is kind of a big deal and needs to have a link to the document on the product page, possibly the manual? a link that is, live document and all :cool:


Bravo on the guide otherwise, really clever work in there.

Also, in 6.b.ii.4.a of the guide, "do not apply a hpf" .... is that to say, bypass the hpf we set in 4.e.iii.1.b ?
Updated 6.b.ii.4.a accordingly; you would want to leave the infrasonic filter you set in 4.e.iii.1.b in place
 
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@squiers007 - I'd be interested to know both ways.

- Active where each driver is on it's own amp channel.

- Passive where the tweeters/mids drivers share a cabinet with integrated semi-conductor Xover and are powered together by one amp channel for each side (Left/Right), and then separate L/R powered subs

Let me know if this thread is the appropriate place to discuss this or if you have a reference to elsewhere, I'll head off to look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Greatly appreciate the guide and everybody's contributions to it.

I have a few questions:

Why the do you recommend a 1.25 x fs BW12 protective crossover. Why BW12 over LR12?

How will the protective crossover BW12 affect the tweeters phase and actual crossover if using LR24 electrically?

With an Audiofrog GB15, this puts the protective crossover at about 1480hz really close to the recommended minimum crossover of 1800hz.

Can I just use a sharper slope at one octave lower then desired crossover frequency if the measurements are not to loud?

I ask all this because it was my impression from the manual that Dirac cannot correct for phase through the crossover when using separate Dirac channels per driver vs 1 channel left drivers and 1 channel right drivers.

I figured two different crossover types BW12 and LR24 on the same driver at different frequencies would mess up phase.

Thank you.
The protective XO guidance is simply to help you protect your tweeter from blowing during the sine sweeps. You can certainly use a different frequency or XO type/slope. It was just a basic way to come up with a reasonable protective XO, for those who might not have any idea on how to pick a protective XO. I didn't personally follow the 1.25 x Fs that I put in the guide, as I'm using a protective cap, from my last set of tweeters. The main thing is to keep it low enough that it won't impact the actual HPF that you use for your tune. Dirac won't need to correct phase through your protective XO if it is low enough
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
:oops::oops::oops:

I just finished my first successful Dirac tune and WOW. I am impressed and excited! I didn't think it would go so well on the first try. Detail is the best I've heard in any of my systems to date, imaging is good and the stage is huge. I am hearing more resolution in songs I've listened to hundreds of times on many different stereos. Vocals sound more real. Midbass has more clarity. High hats sizzle above my head like a sonic veil (no exaggeration - it's incredible!) and it sounds like there is a kick drum inside my engine bay haha. I can't wait to continue messing with this technology!! I'm doubtful I'd ever be able to get a tune like this manually.

Side note: one thing I find weird about the 8x12DL is that the sin sweeps are fed directly from your computer to the DSP, never passing through the head unit. As such, any coloration in your system upstream of the DSP is not accounted for.

I want to give some feedback on the Guide here too. Overall I found it strikes a good balance between completeness and conciseness.

My front stage is 2-way, just midbass and tweeters, so I adapted the guide accordingly. In the Dirac Channels Configuration step, I used "Small/Bass Managed" for the mids (step 4fii) since neither woofer nor midrange seems appropriate. Not sure how much of a difference this makes. I think it would be useful to remind users here to set unused channels to Unsued in this step since Dirac will error otherwise.

In step 5diii, it could be useful to be explicit about what meter should be monitored to hit the -20 to -25dB target. In this case I think it's the mic gain's meter.

When loading the target curve in 5gi, it would be useful to add that the target curve should be applied to All Groups.

Setting the curtains is a little subjective and some users may find some more guidance by example useful at that step. Same goes for selecting crossover points.
Glad you got a great tune!

Thanks for the feedback. I updated 4.f.iii and 5.g.i accordingly. I was trying to avoid getting into XO points in this guide; my thought process is, if this becomes a 10+ page guide, it will become too daunting for most beginners. Open to reconsidering, though.
 

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they watch the Fourn , and I have a connect w mini and they have reached out

they are slow to do things , but when they do they go all in …..

They also have to adhere to Dirac “recommendation” so ….. it’s more a Dirac thing actually and Dirac is developing a multi-way tune
So that’s that I suppose
Will be interested to see where this goes.

I've tried both methods. For my setup, a 3 way tune works better. I'm using 1 channel for L, 1 for R, and 1 for Sub.

Then again, the setup I have is actually pretty flat / close to target curve with minimal EQ to start. I also have pretty good measurements for delay in the setup.

I'm in a "whatever works" kind of mode, so if this works for the car and creates the best results? Awesome. For me following MiniDSP and getting a "pre-tune" close (timing alignment, Xovers, etc) where I want has had better results.

Would love to see more thoughts on "box" size vs results. Also, I have not tried, but would be interested to see how much using 13 or 17 points would "help". To do list never ends...
 

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@squiers007 - I'd be interested to know both ways.

- Active where each driver is on it's own amp channel.

- Passive where the tweeters/mids drivers share a cabinet with integrated semi-conductor Xover and are powered together by one amp channel for each side (Left/Right), and then separate L/R powered subs

Let me know if this thread is the appropriate place to discuss this or if you have a reference to elsewhere, I'll head off to look.
Might be best to start the Home discussion in a new thread.

That being said I think this could work well on an Active setup, but I would make some changes (or just follow MiniDSP's guide for a surround setup) if using passive speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
My front stage is 2-way, just midbass and tweeters, so I adapted the guide accordingly. In the Dirac Channels Configuration step, I used "Small/Bass Managed" for the mids (step 4fii) since neither woofer nor midrange seems appropriate.
Currently, Dirac doesn't do anything with that speaker size; it's going to run the full sine sweep for all channels. Maybe later on they'll use it for something.
 
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Will be interested to see where this goes.

I've tried both methods. For my setup, a 3 way tune works better. I'm using 1 channel for L, 1 for R, and 1 for Sub.

Then again, the setup I have is actually pretty flat / close to target curve with minimal EQ to start. I also have pretty good measurements for delay in the setup.

I'm in a "whatever works" kind of mode, so if this works for the car and creates the best results? Awesome. For me following MiniDSP and getting a "pre-tune" close (timing alignment, Xovers, etc) where I want has had better results.

Would love to see more thoughts on "box" size vs results. Also, I have not tried, but would be interested to see how much using 13 or 17 points would "help". To do list never ends...
I’ve always thought you can’t argue with results

If you like it , then that’s a win

Get this , in my shop , I have some hangs with big horns and 10” midbass

In the sweet spot it sounds great , directly under and behind the speakers they sound (to me) even better, and it’s like 120deg off axis…. So strange , but I love the response. The detail is amazing and midbass thumps….

The responce there shows a bump at 150 and a wide dip from 500-4Khz , idk , I like it….
 
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