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Hillbilly
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As previously mentioned, I tried to use DL to measure and optimize each individual driver to a specific target curve a number of ways. The truth is, it just didn’t work well for me. My best results were met by using DL in stereo mode with the subwoofer getting half of the summed signal as it was summed by combining Left+Right in the routing tab. DL suggests this and my results back this as being the best method. But, again, it might be useful for you to first run DL on each individual driver to let DL tell you the time delay and level values to set for the corresponding output channels in the MiniDSP. Then re-run DL in 2-channel mode after you’ve made those adjustments.
Erin... this somewhat confusing for me in what you are doing here. For clarification ... miniDSP/DL recommends measuring the subwoofer separate from the other speakers. The 2-way or 3-way system with the frequency response outside of the subwoofer range is what they recommend measuring as one speaker (supposedly if they are not too far apart). This is similar to the home... we measure all the full range speakers and the subwoofer separately.

Can you share your XML file.... or post a screenshot of your routing and mixer tabs?

I wouldn't mind trying what you are suggesting to see how it sounds, but it seems like it would confuse the bass management.
 

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Erin... this somewhat confusing for me in what you are doing here. For clarification ... miniDSP/DL recommends measuring the subwoofer separate from the other speakers. The 2-way or 3-way system with the frequency response outside of the subwoofer range is what they recommend measuring as one speaker (supposedly if they are not too far apart). This is similar to the home... we measure all the full range speakers and the subwoofer separately.



Can you share your XML file.... or post a screenshot of your routing and mixer tabs?



I wouldn't mind trying what you are suggesting to see how it sounds, but it seems like it would confuse the bass management.
So the unit has 12 outputs. 8 of which can be used as dirac. We've found through testing that its actually best to only use 3 or those outputs in the whole system, not considering rearfill and the like.

So basically. The first time you run dirac. Use as many channels as you have speakers.

You have a simple 6.5 and tweeter and a sub woofer? Thats 5 channels for 5 speakers. So do the 9 measurements and then send it into the box. What you're after here isn't actually a tune but the delay and levels that dirac does. You can see this via the Dirac tab in the plug in.

Now, write those down. And make a 2nd tune on the 2nd tab of the plug in. Same crossovers, same pretune eq if u choose too, but this time input the levels and delay that dirac used for tune 1 on the first tab.

Then run Dirac once more but instead, use inly 3 channels of the 12 total.

One for left. One for right. And one for subwoofer.

Its works a lot better.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
 

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Hillbilly
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173 Posts
So the unit has 12 outputs. 8 of which can be used as dirac. We've found through testing that its actually best to only use 3 or those outputs in the whole system, not considering rearfill and the like.

So basically. The first time you run dirac. Use as many channels as you have speakers.

You have a simple 6.5 and tweeter and a sub woofer? Thats 5 channels for 5 speakers. So do the 9 measurements and then send it into the box. What you're after here isn't actually a tune but the delay and levels that dirac does. You can see this via the Dirac tab in the plug in.

Now, write those down. And make a 2nd tune on the 2nd tab of the plug in. Same crossovers, same pretune eq if u choose too, but this time input the levels and delay that dirac used for tune 1 on the first tab.

Then run Dirac once more but instead, use inly 3 channels of the 12 total.

One for left. One for right. And one for subwoofer.

Its works a lot better.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Yep... that's exactly what I'm doing... but it sounds like Erin is running his subs mixed in with his fronts from how he described it.

Here are my Routing and Mixer tabs... 7 channels initially, then 5 channels including the rear channels on the final run...



 

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Hillbilly
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173 Posts
Looks like about the only difference in yours and mine is I use the Bass Mgt tab on the routing per the recommendation of miniDSP. But I do link my two sub channels at output in the Mixer.

You do eliminate two of your input channels on the Routing tab, but that won't make a difference as the fronts are all getting the left and right input either way. The Mixer tab will determine how they are output for Dirac measurements.
 

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Erin... this somewhat confusing for me in what you are doing here. For clarification ... miniDSP/DL recommends measuring the subwoofer separate from the other speakers. The 2-way or 3-way system with the frequency response outside of the subwoofer range is what they recommend measuring as one speaker (supposedly if they are not too far apart). This is similar to the home... we measure all the full range speakers and the subwoofer separately.

Can you share your XML file.... or post a screenshot of your routing and mixer tabs?

I wouldn't mind trying what you are suggesting to see how it sounds, but it seems like it would confuse the bass management.
So, I tried a tune like this with simply L/R with the subwoofer mixed in, on this tune I am not using bass management. The results are good, on previous tunes I always found the sub-bass lacking, but this way it is not lacking at all and (to my ears at least) is blending really nicely with the mid-bass and is now right up on the dash. If you have time and a spare preset it's well worth a try of just L/R.

My other favorite tune I am running has the subwoofer separate, but on this particular tune the subwoofer level is a touch too low for my preference. With almost all of my previous tunes I found the subwoofer level lower than I would like. I need to do some more back to back comparisons between the two to determine which I really prefer though.
 

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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet or not, but I was brainstorming about process flow and came up with an idea which I will be trying out when I get my next build finished (where my 8x12DL is going).


My plan is to attempt the following:


1. Set delays in the plugin using SysTune impulse response, like I always do.

2. Measure each driver individually using the 5 mic array for spacial averaging.

3. Export the measurements from SysTune and import them to REW.

4. Use REW to build EQ biquads and export those to miniDSP. This can be done to a flat target curve, or to whatever curve we want.

5. Finish plugin base tune by adding crossover points.

6. Run Dirac for 3 channels, left right and sub.
 

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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet or not, but I was brainstorming about process flow and came up with an idea which I will be trying out when I get my next build finished (where my 8x12DL is going).





My plan is to attempt the following:





1. Set delays in the plugin using SysTune impulse response, like I always do.



2. Measure each driver individually using the 5 mic array for spacial averaging.



3. Export the measurements from SysTune and import them to REW.



4. Use REW to build EQ biquads and export those to miniDSP. This can be done to a flat target curve, or to whatever curve we want.



5. Finish plugin base tune by adding crossover points.



6. Run Dirac for 3 channels, left right and sub.
Did that but with Rew. Dirac doesn't average the measurements. So the pre eq you do is pointless

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
 

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Hillbilly
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173 Posts
So, I tried a tune like this with simply L/R with the subwoofer mixed in, on this tune I am not using bass management. The results are good, on previous tunes I always found the sub-bass lacking, but this way it is not lacking at all and (to my ears at least) is blending really nicely with the mid-bass and is now right up on the dash. If you have time and a spare preset it's well worth a try of just L/R.

My other favorite tune I am running has the subwoofer separate, but on this particular tune the subwoofer level is a touch too low for my preference. With almost all of my previous tunes I found the subwoofer level lower than I would like. I need to do some more back to back comparisons between the two to determine which I really prefer though.
I had better luck combining the sub in to channels left and right and running DL in 2 channel mode; not 3 channel. But, YMMV.
I will definitely try it... and would not mind at all if it turned out better, because it is pretty good right now.

This is from my drivers seat... dead center of my head... 1/6th smoothing. All of my DL measurements were right around were my head is... with the first being dead center of head.

 

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Lately I’ve been doing the rear measurements
About 6” apart top to bottom, at top my shoulders with mic pointing out from my ears and at top of my ears and directly touching my head

The outermost forward measurements at my knees and the top ones R in passenger seat and L about 6” in front of my 1st measurement point. (Parallels)
And the 1st measurement at my nose.

I likeee so far.

Having the rear measurements pulled a little tighter seems to get what’s going on at my ears more true to the target and what the avg shows compared to my moving mic RTA

So far so good, my target seems to be easier to deal with and I have nice smooth curve that sounds good
 

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Do you think its bad to use peqs after dirac?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


No, but in the interest of getting a repeatable process it is best to work on the target and eventually you should have a target that gets you what you want one the first try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Would it hold true that if your pre-tune is decent - when you get to an event that is quite different than the area you last ran Dirac - you could simply run Dirac at the event location under a new preset?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Man, I gotta stop reading these Dirac threads, it's making me regret my recent switch to a Helix.
 

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Discussion Starter #59 (Edited)
Would it hold true that if your pre-tune is decent - when you get to an event that is quite different than the area you last ran Dirac - you could simply run Dirac at the event location under a new preset?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Well, if you subscribe to the school of thought that you do need to change your setup due to different venues and you're insistent upon a pre-tune being necessary then it would make sense to me that you would need to do the whole process over again. Including time.

However, I don't think either is necessary, and certainly not adjusting for time since it's all relative. I think the issue isn't that the system changes but that our hearing is effected (for example, I've seen many cases where the drive/flight to finals has caused issues with people's sinuses which impacts their hearing). But, let's say you subscribe to those schools of thought... at the least, you could probably "get away with" just using the 2nd step of re-running DL to correct for your any atmospheric effects.
 

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Do you think its bad to use peqs after dirac?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
I do it changes the way it makes the timing on everything

Not so much in the highs as the lows .


You can hear everything in balance and add peq seems to alter the balance

If you want to turn something up or down use the target it will have better coherency between frequency and time , although you can do whatever you want if you think it’s better and then go for it but I think it sounds better to just shake or target and get your pre-tune nailed down
 
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