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Yes the ADC going in minidsp.

You can hear it overload when the signal does not clip (on a scope) but audibly started to saturate when the kenwood was about 5clicks to max volume.

In the Dirac plugin there’s a master output and individual output sliders for each speaker. There all a input gain, I used the master slider and turned it down to -5
And problem was gone.
What did CDSP plugin's input meters show when the Kenwood was at -5 clicks of max volume? Adjusting any gains in the plugin or Dirac DLCT does not effect CDPS's input ADC level. Only source head-unit or 2/4V DIPs can change that level. So maybe you were overloading after the AD conversion? There are lots of gain adjustments after that.
 

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All this talk of output voltage from head units has me wondering what the output is from my tablet. I'm running a Sabre USB-DAC and can find these specs listed:

Output levels:
Open 2.2Vrms
4.7Kohm 2.1Vrms
1.8Kohm 1.9Vrms
510ohm 1.5Vrms
330ohm 1.3Vrms
30ohm 1Vrms

I'd assume that I have it running wide open so 2.2V, wondering now if I am leaving any power on the table.
 

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Discussion Starter #403 (Edited)
What did CDSP plugin's input meters show when the Kenwood was at -5 clicks of max volume? Adjusting any gains in the plugin or Dirac DLCT does not effect CDPS's input ADC level. Only source head-unit or 2/4V DIPs can change that level. So maybe you were overloading after the AD conversion? There are lots of gain adjustments after that.
WELL .....


There is no input meters , only output meters , the Non DL plugin I believe has input meters , like the 2x4hd does or any of the Hd lineup


So I don’t know

I could hear it start to saturate with music. With tones it was mostly non issue.
I added a 40hz later to the 1k tone and got it to saturate, signal not clipped on my scopemeter, but sounding not super awesome coming out the back end

I know for a fact because I’ve done it plenty of times a kenwood should go all the way to the very top with just a tiny bit of clipping that is mostly inaudible.
That is with all bells and whistles turned off and all eq on deck at flat

A tiny bit of clipping sorta sounds like mild distortion that sometimes just makes things seem louder but is mostly unnoticeable to most people. A completely unclipped signal and if a loudspeaker can play that signal with fidelity wont sound as loud as it would with the signal soft clipping

A saturated signal is extremely audible,, it’s really grainy and overdriven sounding.


The manual states the input voltages between low level and high level ,
It’s 4vrms input will definitely work just fine with everyone’s hi volt decks
Just a tiny bit of caution on the very top end


Like I said before , lowering the master gain in DLCT is associated with the input level , taking it to -5 did the job good enough, although a resistive circuit would have been ideal if I was planning on playing the deck at max volume all the time.

The DLCT target would also bring down the input but that’s done in dsp and isn’t really the input. i.e the signals already in the chip.


So my post was just a warning to anyone over 4vrms and usually likes to tune there system to go all the way up with no audible distortion, to just mind the input and maybe not use the very last click on your master volume but that’s it.
I really shouldn’t have brought it up.

Jsconey2 was asking about levels and on and out gains , I think he was asking about output gains and boost , I was talking about maximizing the input before going and adding boost.

If one wanted to use the high level input setting on the 5v deck that would for sure do the job, the threshold is a bit low for my taste and as much as Dirac will take away from the signal when you cut the target , I would rather just use the 4v setting and again, ignore the last click on stereo,

If your max vol is 35 stop at 34. You’ll have a lot more usable input gain.


The kenwood was fine all the way except the very last click, which if I remember was 5db gain. Which is a huge jump in signal I can’t remember the actual numbers but it was the difference of almost a full volt if I remember right,
I think it was 4db so I attenuated 5db on the master output in DLCT (which really is the input gain)

The non DL unit the Dirac correction lies in the input “peq” bank and the fir

The old plugin had a input slider gain and seperate output slider gains (okay I’m guessing but the ddrc24 is that way) someone should be able to validate that:
I never seen the non dL plugin , but it should have had a input gain slider and a input peq bank.

The DLCT takes over that input section, the DLCT plugin affects the input sideand depending how the matrix is configured, there is a straight through diagram on the manual that shows it .

So turning down the master a couple clicks should cut the signal, but that’s after the ADC is already done , I am not saying it cuts it before it, I only did that so I’m not at the bloody 0dbfs line, even tho my target would have cut me to a safe spot anyway. A resistive circut would be needed to cut the input signal farther if it was a issue , if it’s that big of a issue just don’t turn source up so loud or use the high level inputs
 

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This is all assuming a perfectly flat full range signal, through a head unit, through Dirac, and through the plug in. As soon as you start taking into account the eq done from Dirac and the Master volume. Gain structures are all over. I need to get out the scope and do some research on each of my outputs and play with the master slider/ individual outputs in the Plugin because right now. i only get medium volume from 62/62 and that's not okay..

But to be fair i haven't touched my amp gains at all switching from a helix dsp.2 which has 6 volts out.
 

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Discussion Starter #405 (Edited)
This is all assuming a perfectly flat full range signal, through a head unit, through Dirac, and through the plug in. As soon as you start taking into account the eq done from Dirac and the Master volume. Gain structures are all over. I need to get out the scope and do some research on each of my outputs and play with the master slider/ individual outputs in the Plugin because right now. i only get medium volume from 62/62 and that's not okay..

But to be fair i haven't touched my amp gains at all switching from a helix dsp.2 which has 6 volts out.

we have a dmtra it has scope features it works decently
Plus I have a scope on my meter.

And btw I got over 5v on the 80 ;) at 62


I’m not sure what your doing.

I can get a TON of gain out of the mini easily more than I get with most headunits and definitely way more than I’ve ever got with a 2x4hd or ddrc

Have you opened your C and done anything with the dips?

Are you sure your not on hi-level in switch and are using the low level switch
With the default 4v input


short baby boy names unique


Edit:

This is all assuming a perfectly flat full range signal, through a head unit, through Dirac, and through the plug in. As soon as you start taking into account the eq done from Dirac and the Master volume. Gain structures are all over. I need to get out the scope and do some research on each of my outputs and play with the master slider/ individual outputs in the Plugin because right now. i only get medium volume from 62/62 and that's not okay..

But to be fair i haven't touched my amp gains at all switching from a helix dsp.2 which has 6 volts out.
6v amp gain settings...well silly you need to gain that up
I’m not worried one bit you’ll get it go crank them up
A tad
 

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^^^ this is a good point
 

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we have a dmtra it has scope features it works decently

Plus I have a scope on my meter.



And btw I got over 5v on the 80 ;) at 62





I’m not sure what your doing.



I can get a TON of gain out of the mini easily more than I get with most headunits and definitely way more than I’ve ever got with a 2x4hd or ddrc



Have you opened your C and done anything with the dips?



Are you sure your not on hi-level in switch and are using the low level switch

With the default 4v input





short baby boy names unique





Edit:







6v amp gain settings...well silly you need to gain that up

I’m not worried one bit you’ll get it go crank them up

A tad
Checked the switch. They are all on 4v.



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Discussion Starter #408
I just hooked my 80up to cig lighter wire to power it up
And ran a rca to my C , I’ve never opened it so everything is default

No saturation, no clipping. Seemed to play just fine through the C
Plenty of gain. And a 5min test no touching anything except routing the matrix for the analog in using all my setting for toslink input and my Dirac tune for toslink etc etc

Worked fine , sounded great! Not a single problem at all , went to 62 no distortion or clipping at all.

(I also wanted to hear the 80 through it and see how the 80 eq sounded passing through it out of curiosity). Tbh it sounded the same as my optical. Gosh, all that fuss for an optical that really dosent do a whole lot. Regardless, you should be good to go
 

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I just hooked my 80up to cig lighter wire to power it up
And ran a rca to my C , I’ve never opened it so everything is default

No saturation, no clipping. Seemed to play just fine through the C
Plenty of gain. And a 5min test no touching anything except routing the matrix for the analog in using all my setting for toslink input and my Dirac tune for toslink etc etc

Worked fine , sounded great! Not a single problem at all , went to 62 no distortion or clipping at all.

(I also wanted to hear the 80 through it and see how the 80 eq sounded passing through it out of curiosity). Tbh it sounded the same as my optical. Gosh, all that fuss for an optical that really dosent do a whole lot. Regardless, you should be good to go
Well i mean, before Dirac(Dirac OFF). I have volume up the ass. But after Dirac(Dirac ON). Not so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #411 (Edited)
Checked the switch. They are all on 4v.



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Your target is cut too much !

I can see it in your target

Your cutting too much out of target ,


I can see how your sub is the leading than everything drops,

USE YOUR BASS KNOB TO ADD SUB after everything is done to get that boost in the bass. Don’t do it in the target, your killing your gain,

Run your target curve to -3db or so and fun a tiny bit of boost in the dip you have at 1.5k i(if there is one) you should be using the bass knob to get that boost in the sub not the target


You want your target to hug the lower edge of the response
Not way deep into the stop band of other drivers.
Man that’s a lot of wasted signal. I bet it sounds great! Just not very loud


Also if you cut that Much out of inband it will extend the crossover points farther out, but your cutting the signal as well , so it’s moot, but could make a tweeter play dangerously low in some instances, horns are fine to do that, but say a silk 1” could get hot.


When I say “keep the target below the “avg.spectrum” I didn’t mean at the bottom of the screen. I hope I didn’t explain it wrong , sorry if so
 

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Your target is cut too much !



I can see it in your target



Your cutting too much out of target ,





I can see how your sub is the leading than everything drops,



USE YOUR BASS KNOB TO ADD SUB after everything is done to get that boost in the bass. Don’t do it in the target, your killing your gain,



Run your target curve to -3db or so and fun a tiny bit of boost in the dip you have at 2.5k i(if there is one) you should be using the bass knob to get that boost in the sub not the target
Ah. Thats why i posted pics..

But how do i get Dirac to do correction on the sub then? I could just make the subs curve at a lower level(or equalish) on average to the midbass and then raise it with the bass knob but doesn't Dirac look at interactions between drivers and compensate? I'd assume that if the sub level changed after Dirac. Its compensation would be moot.

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Discussion Starter #413 (Edited)
Ah. Thats why i posted pics..

But how do i get Dirac to do correction on the sub then? I could just make the subs curve at a lower level(or equalish) on average to the midbass and then raise it with the bass knob but doesn't Dirac look at interactions between drivers and compensate? I'd assume that if the sub level changed after Dirac. Its compensation would be moot.

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Just draw the shape you want in response , I shape the crossover a little (maybe 2db down but that’s it) I don’t draw the target to -40db or anything silly.
But whatever floats your boat , of course do what you like.

But yeah draw the shape you want , than for sub just turn up the sub on a bass knob


Dood I have my sub response lookin about like yours is there, after Dirac I crank it up about another 30db on some songs with my bass knob.


Dirac thinks your in a room, you’ll never hear the sub while driving if you ran it from the target. The sub should be way way way higher than the rest.

Unless it’s critical listening with the car off sitting in a cool garage or something
Or sitting in a lane or looking at graphs.
 

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Just draw the shape you want in response , I shape the crossover a little (maybe 2db down but that’s it) I don’t draw the target to -40db or anything silly.

But yeah draw the shape you want , than for sub just turn up the sub on a bass knob


Dood I have my sub response lookin about like yours is there, after Dirac I crank it up about another 30db on some songs with my bass knob.


Dirac thinks your in a room, you’ll never hear the sub while driving if you ran it from the target. The sub should be way way way higher than the rest.

Unless it’s critical listening with the car off sitting in a cool garage or something
Key word. "Cool Garage"

Seriously. This hobby isn't even possible without one.

Question. If my sub measurement is above 0db and i follow its response perfectly with Dirac points, it shouldn't boost anything right? Just do its magic phase fixing.
 

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Discussion Starter #415
Key word. "Cool Garage"

Seriously. This hobby isn't even possible without one.

Question. If my sub measurement is above 0db and i follow its response perfectly with Dirac points, it shouldn't boost anything right? Just do its magic phase fixing.


Curtain off the sub and don’t have any measurement points (except 1) that will do only phase response.


Just draw a flat line on sub from 20 to 50hz using two or three points
At the 0db line , curtain off everything else
And than run it

After crank up sub gain a LOT than tel me how it sounds ;-)
 

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Curtain off the sub and don’t have any measurement points (except 1) that will do only phase response.





Just draw a flat line on sub from 20 to 50hz

At the 0db line , curtain off everything else

And than run it



After crank up sub gain a LOT than tel me how it sounds ;-)
Like that?


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Discussion Starter #417
Like that?


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Yes but add a point at the beginning, and maybe one in middle but not necessary, but yes two pts min , one at 20 and one at 50


Otherwise yes perfect


You’ll be surprised how good it can make sub ....
 

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Yes but add a point at the beginning, and maybe one in middle but not necessary, but yes two pts min , one at 20 and one at 50





Otherwise yes perfect





You’ll be surprised how good it can make sub ....
Will do.

When i optimize two drivers (both midbass). Does it matter if i optimize them separately or as a linked pair?

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Discussion Starter #419
Will do.

When i optimize two drivers (both midbass). Does it matter if i optimize them separately or as a linked pair?

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I do linked pairs always, keeps them correlated

If the target is exactly the same than it dosent matter, but they have to be e x a c t l y the same .

But again falls into whatever floats your boat, I always do linked pairs if I want them to image worth a shit.

On bass drivers I suppose there’s some leeway , but not much


Unlinking should be for different groups (fronts/rears/ highs/lows/mids/ etc )
But stereo pairs should be linked



Example, the manual says you can unlink two and follow a dip with one if one side has a dip , I’ve done that and it ruins imaging, that’s why I just eq under the dips, than it’s a non issue and all works fine.

Except dips in the treble can usually take some boost. Especially with horns.
 

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I do linked pairs always, keeps them correlated



If the target is exactly the same than it dosent matter, but they have to be e x a c t l y the same .



But again falls into whatever floats your boat, I always do linked pairs if I want them to image worth a shit.



On bass drivers I suppose there’s some leeway , but not much





Unlinking should be for different groups (fronts/rears/ highs/lows/mids/ etc )

But stereo pairs should be linked







Example, the manual says you can unlink two and follow a dip with one if one side has a dip , I’ve done that and it ruins imaging, that’s why I just eq under the dips, than it’s a non issue and all works fine.



Except dips in the treble can usually take some boost. Especially with horns.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.

There's my output.

Where's your donation box..

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