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I don’t think giving sub more gain and than measurements is going to change anything, it will just add or subtract gain to match the target, (unless I’m not understanding you right)
The issue is this:

Measurements are complete and it is noticed in DLCT filter design screen that the measured sub response is below the target you want it to reach.

So you go back and turn up the sub, say 6db, on the output tab of the plugin (Not in DLCT) and then go back into DLCT and redo all 9 measurements - during the measurement the sub sweep audibly sounds louder and visually looks larger on the time-domain response graph at the bottom of the measurement screen.

One would expect the measured sub response in the DLCT filter design tab would now plot higher in amplitude - BUT IT IS NOT... it's at the same level as the previous measurement.
 

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I think someone might have been onto something when they mentioned Windows applying auto gain to the UMIK 1 input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I think someone might have been onto something when they mentioned Windows applying auto gain to the UMIK 1 input.
Could be but I would expect it to do the same when using REW but I'm not experiencing any anomalies like this when using REW?
 

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Discussion Starter #584
Yeah at the frequencies he is at the wavelength is large.
So individual sub, and individual mid-bass phase plot(s) should tell if there is something happening to cause concern.

If one unplugs the midbass and sound gets louder in the cross over region, then that is a qualitative clue. But the quantitative plot is ideal.
Guys make sure that your measurements are clean,
If your having a phase issue in a crossover down low , you can help that with new measurements. Something is causing that, a simple adjustment or just a new measurement sometimes can fix that.

If it’s persistent in all measurements make a change like add a little delay or reverse the polarity on a set than try new measurements till it sounds right.

We shouldn’t sound where the speakers are fighting each other in the low frequency the high frequency can be a completely different challenge



The issue is this:

Measurements are complete and it is noticed in DLCT filter design screen that the measured sub response is below the target you want it to reach.

So you go back and turn up the sub, say 6db, on the output tab of the plugin (Not in DLCT) and then go back into DLCT and redo all 9 measurements - during the measurement the sub sweep audibly sounds louder and visually looks larger on the time-domain response graph at the bottom of the measurement screen.

One would expect the measured sub response in the DLCT filter design tab would now plot higher in amplitude - BUT IT IS NOT... it's at the same level as the previous measurement.

Don’t quote me on this, but I think I read actually on a home theater shack review or on a video by them (can’t remember) that someone said there no more then 10db difference in the traget before it will truncate parts of it.

Reason 99 to use a bass knob
 

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Discussion Starter #585
The phase cancellation thing in the low-frequency is the new one to me because were almost the whole time I’ve ever use this except for now I’ve used to linear phase crossovers
Downstream the measurements never picked up any twisting

But I have had bad measurements do that

So yeah I would be curious what smart things
 

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Reason 99 to use a bass knob
While I get what you are saying with this, previously with my manual tune I never needed to use the bass knob. I had it set at a level that I was happy with no matter what I was listening to.

Using Dirac if my sub is not clipping during the sweeps and I feel that the level is too low for my taste, if I increase the sub level on the output tab (via the plugin), the level is shown as a louder sweep in DLCT, then surely that should translate through as a higher level on the filter design tab, which would then ultimately go all the way through to a higher subwoofer level while listening. It does not seem to do that and so then I end up pulling my target curve down some to match the subwoofer and ultimately lose that output I am trying to dial back in.

Sure the bass knob will bring that back, but I should not have to use it unless I really wanted to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter #587
I’m email David grosso and see if he’ll jump in on this

He also has a ton of experience with DL
And he’s all about how you guys want things

I’m more of a , if it sounds good this way I don’t care guy,

But if your competing and want it that exactly in your targets maybe he has an answer better than me
 

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I’m more of a , if it sounds good this way I don’t care guy,
This is how I am as well, but at the same time....

But if your competing and want it that exactly in your targets maybe he has an answer better than me
I would not mind competing and would also like to understand why the sub acts the way that it does. Even if it is just to get it to a level that I can "set it and forget it"
 

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Discussion Starter #589
While I get what you are saying with this, previously with my manual tune I never needed to use the bass knob. I had it set at a level that I was happy with no matter what I was listening to.

Using Dirac if my sub is not clipping during the sweeps and I feel that the level is too low for my taste, if I increase the sub level on the output tab (via the plugin), the level is shown as a louder sweep in DLCT, then surely that should translate through as a higher level on the filter design tab, which would then ultimately go all the way through to a higher subwoofer level while listening. It does not seem to do that and so then I end up pulling my target curve down some to match the subwoofer and ultimately lose that output I am trying to dial back in.

Sure the bass knob will bring that back, but I should not have to use it unless I really wanted to do so.


I’m just talking about just lifting gain on sub after your done measurements
And that’s it.

But yeah if you increase the sub and remeasure, you’ll run into the same thing your target sounds no matter how you do it (within 10db)


Yeah it won’t boost more than 10db and there isn’t more than 10db of wiggleroom within the entire target


Which is weird , I want to say I’ve made some deep deep cuts before no issues

I need to find out
 

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Discussion Starter #590 (Edited)
The avg spectrum response you see when you are drawing your target is a “normalized view”.

So the eq (target) reacts to that not quite exactly as it looks.
It normalizes the response to be centered on the 0db line when actually the response (dB for dB) could be something else. But the response shape should still be consistent with what was measured.


There no more than 10db of boost (which also means no more than 10db of tilt in the target) if I’m not mistaken. I’m trying to find where I read that now to confirm , edit: if I remember right. The “0dbline” is just a reference for you to use the eq and means nothing to how much “boost or cut” is over the signal, because like I said it’s a normalized view.


I’m the digital realm there’s no 0db line with 10db above that, you hit 0dbfs period at the top. That said , if the target has more than 10db of tilt , it’s going to look at it as one continuous gradual boost (looking right to left)


It actually might be in the minidsp forums buried in a thread also. I’m lookin , I’m also at work so it might take me a little to try n find it
 

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Just got back from about a 40 minute drive, definitely happy with this particular tune overall (using 5 channels). If I can just get that little bit more from the subwoofer (which I may end up just turning it up in the output tab a couple dB) and fix that dip at 55Hz it will be about perfect.

Midbass is good currently, imaging, stage etc. all good. Just those last few minor tweaks and I think I am set.
 

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Discussion Starter #592 (Edited)
Keeping the target under the response ensures you aren’t adding boost over what the input signal is bringing in.

The target as a whole though, is also subject to the 10db max overall boost.


And it makes sense why that is, when I had eqs taped to my dash years ago (just for you rockinridgeline lol) for instance, at one point I had a rane me30s running as two channel eq over everything , if I had boost in the lows it would saturation on the signal in the highs.
And the tweeters would sound crappy.

I don’t see how this eq is any different, if your in 2ch Dirac you don’t want a lot more of the low frequencies signal proportionally higher than the highs or the same would happen,

I think that’s why they only do 10db of tilt max.

(Still trying to find that post! )
 

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Discussion Starter #593
Just got back from about a 40 minute drive, definitely happy with this particular tune overall (using 5 channels). If I can just get that little bit more from the subwoofer (which I may end up just turning it up in the output tab a couple dB) and fix that dip at 55Hz it will be about perfect.

Midbass is good currently, imaging, stage etc. all good. Just those last few minor tweaks and I think I am set.
Woohooo!!! Yes!

That’s excellent

Yeah I like my 5ch more than my 2ch Dirac also (call me crazy I just like it more)



But dang your first dip at 55 yeah I saw that , you have a bmw. That is so unusually low in my experience I usually don’t see the first dip till at least 60-65 more often 70-80 and sometimes 90-110


Forgive me , you have IB?
 

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Yeah I like my 5ch more than my 2ch Dirac also (call me crazy I just like it more)
I should say, mine is a sort of 2 channel. Front Left, Front Right, Rear Left, Rear Right and Sub, not a Dirac channel per driver type of thing.

But dang your first dip at 55 yeah I saw that , you have a bmw.
Close, I have an Audi, specifically an A4 Avant.

Forgive me , you have IB?
Nope, ported enclosure downfiring into a sort of hollow space under the trunk floor.
 

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The avg spectrum response you see when you are drawing your target is a “normalized view”.

So the eq (target) reacts to that not quite exactly as it looks.
It normalizes the response to be centered on the 0db line when actually the response (dB for dB) could be something else. But the response shape should still be consistent with what was measured.
This seems to be the case - Different Dirac channel measured responses do not seem to corrolate to eachother in terms of level.
BUT, what I found is the different targets do need to corrolate to eachother in terms of level.


Keeping the target under the response ensures you aren’t adding boost over what the input signal is bringing in.
I don't think this is the case... reason being the target I used for the sub was above the measured response but the resulting gain on the plug-in's Dirac Tab for that channel ended up being -17.7db (See my posts above).
I believe Naiku posted similar information.
 

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Could be but I would expect it to do the same when using REW but I'm not experiencing any anomalies like this when using REW?


Not necessarily. REW might have a setting that bypasses the Windows defaults. But that is purely speculation.

I am planning to try using my Tascam and Behringer Mic with Dirac to see what happens.


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Discussion Starter #597 (Edited)
I should say, mine is a sort of 2 channel. Front Left, Front Right, Rear Left, Rear Right and Sub, not a Dirac channel per driver type of thing.



Close, I have an Audi, specifically an A4 Avant.



Nope, ported enclosure downfiring into a sort of hollow space under the trunk floor.
Sorry I hear about it work on so many cars in one day. I thought you said bmw in the PM , but now I remember you did say Audi


I wonder if that dip is enclosure related.

Have you had other subs in there before did all your previous setups do the same thing.

Going from 50-60hz the wavelength goes from big to ginormous.

55 could stil be the room mode, just lower than I would have thought

So your cabin gain is at like 45than I would presume , your bass probably has a hard time sounding punchy if iits sucking out at55

But than again if you have full reinforcement at 70-90 the doors I would guess sound killer
 

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I think the dip is a result of this particular tune, if you look back at post #15 I linked a REW measurement there and the dip is not there. The sub is also much higher, but that was due to me just cranking the sub after using DLCT. Crossovers are still the same, wonder if it is a weird microphone positioning type of thing.
 

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I think the dip is a result of this particular tune, if you look back at post #15 I linked a REW measurement there and the dip is not there. The sub is also much higher, but that was due to me just cranking the sub after using DLCT. Crossovers are still the same, wonder if it is a weird microphone positioning type of thing.
Also IIRC, on this tune you followed the contour of the measured sub plot with your target likely leaving a gap between the sub & midbass.
 

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Discussion Starter #600
Interesting......
Your right.


That is strange.... I dont know how to respond

The LF should just be pressure modes much bigger than the car.


The mic might be picking up a low nodes and high nodes (pressure) and trying to compensate


I don’t know a whole lot about spl but one of my bass head installers works really hard to make sure his kick panel has lots of pressure, that’s where they measure when he competes
So there is something to say about that. I’ve never had such drastic swings in the 50s
(Thinking)
 
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