DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

921 - 940 of 983 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Yes I’d like something like 5x30 watt amp for tweets, 5x100 for mids, 2x175 watt amp for midbasses, and 1x500 wat amp for sub. That right there would be 4 amps even if they existed and of course they don’t because no one makes 5 channel amps like that. But with Dirac it’s definitely advantageous to have separate channels for tweeters. It’s silly to have chunky passive crossovers that eat power and can only color the sound, introduce phase problems.

It would at least be nice if someone made a 10 channel amp like that with the 5 channels for tweets and 5 for mids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,054 Posts
Do a search for some of the older multi-channel amp threads as this has been discussed before and there are a few tiered amps out there. And a couple 8-ch amps. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Hey everyone just a general question since this device has 12 channels of output and many here are doing multichannel active systems: What do you generally do for amplifiers? Does you have like 6 amplifiers or something?

id love to do an all active system with multi- channel upmixing, but scared of what kind of amplifier farm it would entail and miles of copper that would need to be layed.
It shouldn't be too hard. You could do something like an Audison AP F8.9 plus a JL Audio HD600/4. That would give you 12 channels (8x85W plus 4x150W,) and would fit in a space a bit over a square foot (about 17"x10", and only 2" high). Helix V Eight would be another choice for a small 8-channel amp with good power. Or the Alpine PXE-0850S if you can get by with less power.

EDIT: oops, that doesn't leave much for a sub. So JL HD900/5 instead, and let one of the channels in it or in the 8-channel go unused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
I wonder if it would be possible for MiniDSP to offer upgrade for Dirac Unison capabilities, should they finally be made available to the aftermarket rather than exclusively car manufacturers. That would be a game changer and make car audio truly interesting to me. Right now ai want good sound in my car but am reluctant to invest when the industry as whole is still the same technology as 40 years ago. Feels like buying a horse and buggy right before Model T comes out.

I wonder what Dirac will show at CES this week. Hartman isn’t going to release anything to aftermarket ever, I don’t think. https://www.dirac.com/ces2020
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Does anyone know if the C-DSP 8x12 is theoretically upgradeable to Dirac Unison (i.e., fundamentally capable of incorporating digital multichannel upmixing)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
928 Posts
Just thinking out loud, wouldn't it be nice if amps just had a single source of "wattage" that all channels could "share" as needed - dynamically. This way, each channel would take what it needs, when it needs it. Is something like this not possible?

So let's say you bought a 1200 watt amp. Each channel would just use what it needs from that 1200 watts. Obviously, the wattage needed would fluctuate - the 1200 watts would just be a single "pool" of power and each channel used what it needed at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,687 Posts
Just thinking out loud, wouldn't it be nice if amps just had a single source of "wattage" that all channels could "share" as needed - dynamically. This way, each channel would take what it needs, when it needs it. Is something like this not possible?

So let's say you bought a 1200 watt amp. Each channel would just use what it needs from that 1200 watts. Obviously, the wattage needed would fluctuate - the 1200 watts would just be a single "pool" of power and each channel used what it needed at the moment.

The new PG Ti3 amps do something kind of like this called "Power Shift".

POWER SHIFT
Phoenix Gold’s exclusive feature to allow you to direct power where it is needed. Active system design has never been easier. Why waste output power when it can be redirected to the channels that can better utilize it.
Insane amplifier efficiencies and output are achieved with POWER SHIFT. With POWER SHIFT deactivated, the amplifier will produce equal power to all channels (with similar gain settings). To activate POWER SHIFT first power down the amplifier; then switch the front panel selector to ON. Power up the amplifier and the front panel indicator will verify POWER SHIFT is active. Output power from the front channels is redirected to the rear channels.
For an active 2-way front stage, this is the perfect setup, the amplifier shifts from 225w per ch @4Ω to a more usable 150w front ch 300w rear ch setup, into 2Ω the amp produces 200w per channel on 1&2 plus 400 per channel on 3&4. Since the gain controls will be set to similar levels as the amplifier is producing different output power instead of severely turning down the front gains to compensate, the power levels are extremely linear thru the full output range. Audiophiles rejoice!
Another option is a powerful passive front stage and bridge the rear channels to a subwoofer. In this configuration, the front channels would get a respectable 150w per ch @ 4Ω plus a whopping 800w @ 4Ω mono for a subwoofer;
 
  • Like
Reactions: josby

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,180 Posts
Wow thanks again for the detailed explanation.

Even without the phase shift issues that I could likely have overcome I should have been more diligent with equipment selection before I picked up that Z-3KD. I simply overlooked the fact that the bandpass crossover section (LPF and HPF) is non-defeatable. I'm not going to use it not only because of the phase issues that I may have been able to correct, but also the slope on the SSF ended up being all wrong for my install. That 24db SSF is great for a ported enclosure, but not a great choice for an IB setup. If I do end up applying a SSF it will be a 6db slope at 25hz to maximize output and stay within excursion, applied to all channels just to be on the safe side. Thanks again for taking the time to lay it all out.
24dB SSF @ 10Hz is too high and steep for an IB install? That SSF will actually have less impact on your low end response than even a 1st order Butterworth filter at 20Hz. See the comparison below based on some IB subs I have and plan to use in my wife's car.
Yellow: 10Hz LR4 SSF, 250Hz BW2 LPF | Red: 20Hz BW1 SSF | Green: No Filters
259630


Now, if you plan to run those subs with a really high low pass filter then I suppose the 12dB low pass filter built into the amp could have some impact on phase. But, in most installations it shouldn't be an issue.
259631
 
  • Like
Reactions: oabeieo and naiku

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,893 Posts
Just wanted to publicly post a HUGE THANK YOU to Truthunter for helping me with the MiniDSP/Dirac process last night! The results are amazing!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
The
Just wanted to publicly post a HUGE THANK YOU to Truthunter for helping me with the MiniDSP/Dirac process last night! The results are amazing!!
The DIYMA community comes through again! Good lookin' out Truthunter!

I'll be setting mine up in a few weeks for the first time, and I could really use a hand getting me through that initial setup as well... any volunteers?

I'm doing a 3-way up front with Hybrid X3's in the stock 330i door location and C-pillars for rear fill, X1 tweeters on-axis in the sails and midbass v1 is GB60 in stock door card location. Eventually I want to move the mids to the dash and the midbass to the kicks, but I need to get this thing up and running in a bad way. The Joying e46 SPDIF head unit is in, and the 8x12DL is mounted in the CD changer rack in the trunk. All that stuff is wired and done. Now I need to get my trunk situated -- a stealth install -- Z150.6AP mounted upside down with fans under the rear deck, the IDMAX15 downfiring IB in the spare tire well, and a pair of Z-400.2's for sub and midbass duty mounted over the sub. I'm almost there after years of planning and putting this project off for various reasons. I'm so close I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truthunter

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Naiku thanks for the offer, it's greatly appreciated. I will gladly take you up on it when the time comes. I'm in Roseville, CA. I'll let you know when I'm getting close. Thanks! Zac.
 
  • Like
Reactions: naiku

·
Listener of Music
Joined
·
3,359 Posts
Verify please.

Switching to off only changes the voltage input from 2-4 or 8-12 correct? Just making sure I'm reading this correctly.

Screenshot_20200523-081120.png
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,687 Posts
Verify please.

Switching to off only changes the voltage input from 2-4 or 8-12 correct? Just making sure I'm reading this correctly.
That's how I read it too... though I have not changed those switches for my setup so can't confirm with experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Thanks all for your contributions to this thread. After reading all, I can do the tuning myself without no big issues. The result is quite good.

By the way, what are your favorite target curves?
270070
 

·
Listener of Music
Joined
·
3,359 Posts
That's how I read it too... though I have not changed those switches for my setup so can't confirm with experience.
It would be cool if I could shoot shut unused inputs off mechanically. Not really necessary due to software but who doesn't like extra protection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
829 Posts
This thread is full of convolutedness (I made up the word for this thread, lol).

In reading nearly all of it, I come away not knowing whether it’s actually good or not. Even within the same post, it can go from ecstatic to not really. And through the span of the thread, it goes from elation to gradual discontent at times.

The same person might say the system sounds great, but then follows by saying the subwoofer output is too low and the overall volume is too low as well (these two things are why 99% of people get aftermarket systems to begin with!).

This reminds me of the old MS-8 thread in that there was initial praise, followed by issues that suggested such extensive manual manipulation that it no longer seemed like an auto-tune at all.

Is it all good now?

Is there a uniform, repeatable process, whereby you can get an identical tune each time?
 

·
Listener of Music
Joined
·
3,359 Posts
I'm sure if anyone replies in summary,(as in a 1 sentence answer), it will be happiness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,733 Posts
This thread is full of convolutedness (I made up the word for this thread, lol).

In reading nearly all of it, I come away not knowing whether it’s actually good or not. Even within the same post, it can go from ecstatic to not really. And through the span of the thread, it goes from elation to gradual discontent at times.

The same person might say the system sounds great, but then follows by saying the subwoofer output is too low and the overall volume is too low as well (these two things are why 99% of people get aftermarket systems to begin with!).

This reminds me of the old MS-8 thread in that there was initial praise, followed by issues that suggested such extensive manual manipulation that it no longer seemed like an auto-tune at all.

Is it all good now?

Is there a uniform, repeatable process, whereby you can get an identical tune each time?
I’m sure my reply won’t be satisfying, and it is just typed words unless you could hear my car, and you may come away from that experience still not satisfied. But I’m happy with my system - maybe not 100% satisfied, but nearly 90%.

At the present time, I have three main tunes on the car. 1) 3511 crossover point between tweets and mid range 2) 2000 crossover point between tweets and mid range 3) same as 1 but with a 2db dip in the curve around 2.5k for the rowdy stuff (Smashing Pumpkins, Flyleaf, Breaking Benjamin).

All three with the same method. Crossovers, Time Alignment (obtained by completing a 7 channel run), no EQ or levels in the Plug-In, 2 channel Dirac with a curve that I have developed based off a 1/2 Whitledge curve. All three sound very similar because of the curve (I believe). I perceive a lot of detail, staging/ imaging that is better than when I used other processors, and bass response that is accurate. A local friend has heard the car several times, and two trusted friends will hear it next weekend and will tell me if it is decent to their ears or if it needs to be set on fire and rolled down a hill.

But to answer your question - I get repeatable results that provides a sound I’m happy with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
921 - 940 of 983 Posts
Top