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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings all!

My stock Honda door speakers were replaced with four Alpine SPS-610's. I used to keep the bass at +3 (out of 6) and got plenty of low-end from the stock speakers (same size). Now, even with the bass cranked to the max (+6) I get almost no bass response, and the sound is very harsh to the ear!

I'm not using an amp or sub; just simply upgraded the speakers. Unfortunately, this has been a major downgrade in audio fidelity. I've read great reviews on these speakers, so I feel I'm missing something.

Do the SPS-601's have bass blockers built in? I cannot find anything to confirm this, but it definitely sounds like a high-pass filter is applied. What is the "Bennic" capacitor in the attached image? Is it a bass blocker?

I appreciate any insight.
 

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It's a cap to block bass to the tweeter.

What year/model Honda do you have?
No, no it's not. Thats a first order lowpass filter for the woofer.
The tweeter has has an inline first order highpass that has no effect on the woofer what so ever.
Your problem is lack of power and the fact that the alpines were not designed to play "BASS". Your stock speakers were designed with idea that all you had were them. So they give give you more low end. Alpine designed these to play about 80-100 hertz up. Also they are on the lower end of the line up.
So things you need to do now are get an amp for them, a sub and an amp for it.
Or just say the hell with it sell the alpines and put the stock speakers back in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
These speakers were sold to me specifically for the fact that I'd be running off the stock head unit. I was told they would sound much better than the stock speakers. $320 later (installed) and the result is quite the opposite! Plus, they destroyed the original speakers to make mounts for the new.

It's a 2007 CR-V. Any recommendation on how to handle this fairly? I feel kinda screwed right now.
 

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It might be a good idea to check to make sure they are all wired up correctly. If one or two speakers have the wires reversed relative to the others then it can destroy your bass response. Since you had someone else install them I would go back and mention to them about your loss of low end. Hopefully they would go back and verify polarity and that all the speakers are sealed up well.

Thomas also had a point about the design of the factory speakers. Most of them are designed to be run to their maximum potential with the power available from the original head unit. Sometimes when you "upgrade" the speakers you can lose volume and/or bass response since your new speakers are not optimized for your current scenario. I'm leaning a bit more towards the first scenario though since you say your bass is pretty much gone and it's harsh now, which sounds more like major phase issues to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Sleeves, that makes a lot of sense.

I am NOT expecting gut-rumbling low end. But right now, the bass is cranked to the max (even turned the treble down), and I cannot get anything out of these things bass-wise. Kick drums sound like slapping meat. I'm an audio engineer and I know what can be done with 70hz, so something is definitely not right here.

I am really hoping the shop that sold/installed these will do right, and not tell me I suddenly need an amp + sub to get back to my stock Honda sound!
 

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Thanks Sleeves, that makes a lot of sense.

I am NOT expecting gut-rumbling low end. But right now, the bass is cranked to the max (even turned the treble down), and I cannot get anything out of these things bass-wise. Kick drums sound like slapping meat. I'm an audio engineer and I know what can be done with 70hz, so something is definitely not right here.

I am really hoping the shop that sold/installed these will do right, and not tell me I suddenly need an amp + sub to get back to my stock Honda sound!
Ive used those alpines and the tweeter is really harsh and they didnt have much midbass with a 100 watts a piece.
I'm not saying that the shop didnt install something right though. My first move would be to go back and see what they will do. Dont forget though that the shop's main concern is money. Dont be suprised if they come back and tell you that all is good and to give them some time to "break in" and to amp them to make them sound better.
Oh and even 70 hz is going to be pushing it with those.
 

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OEM speakers are generally very efficient(but of poor quality), and do not require much power to produce lower frequencies.
Your Alpines were designed to handle much more power than your stock system can provide and won't give you the same level of bass output as stock speakers.
 

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First off - if it is a good shop with a good reputation their first objective is not to make money - it will be to make a happy customer who will go out and tell others about them - and then with lots of good customers they will be able to make money - again this is if they are a good shop. (That said I understand not every shop may be good).

You trusted them enough to work on your car and purchase from them, so I'm guessing there is something good about the shop and people, so give them a chance to check things out and make it right.

When you purchased the speakers from them - what did you say you were looking for?

That said, you can check a couple things yourself easily: so first step here is to verify things are in phase:

1. put in a song with a solid clean midbass and bass track and a well defined vocalist center image
2. Fade all the way to the front - got some bass and a good center image? OK
3. Fade all the way to the back - same?
4. If all is good there - go back to middle - now balance Left then Right any big changes?

If there is a phase issue, one of those combinations should sound quite a bit better, so then we know we have to fix something - go back to the shop and get them to do it. You paid them, let them do the warranty work.

If you can't get any of that to sound good Fade and balance to just one speaker - do you get some better bass response sound then (only 1 speaker playing now so there won't be much bass output but it should sound more defined).

Let us know how those tests go and lets go from there.
 

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I have the same issue with my car but a lot of mine is due to the stock speakers being better sealed in the door. If they used the stock speakers to make mounts it could be they are not sealed in the doors like the stockers were so they do not produce as much midbass.
 

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No, no it's not. Thats a first order lowpass filter for the woofer.
The tweeter has has an inline first order highpass that has no effect on the woofer what so ever.
Your problem is lack of power and the fact that the alpines were not designed to play "BASS". Your stock speakers were designed with idea that all you had were them. So they give give you more low end. Alpine designed these to play about 80-100 hertz up. Also they are on the lower end of the line up.
So things you need to do now are get an amp for them, a sub and an amp for it.
Or just say the hell with it sell the alpines and put the stock speakers back in.
Ummm.... No. That is definitely a capacitor which can only act as a high pass filter. There would need to be a coil for a low pass filter. If you look you will also notice the capacitor is wired in series with the tweeter. The s series does not have a low pass filter on the woofers, even on the component set. Either way, usually mid bass is not lacking with the s series. I would be concerned with them being out of phase or being installed with gaps around the mounting surface.
 

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No, no it's not. Thats a first order lowpass filter for the woofer.
The tweeter has has an inline first order highpass that has no effect on the woofer what so ever.
Um it says 4.7uF on it and is obvious that it is a capacitor. A first order aka 6db per octive x-over for the LOW pass would be an inductor not a capacitor. That cap is for the tweeter and there does not appear to be any x-over for the mid itself. Infact if that tweeter is a 4ohm tweeter then that 4.7uF cap is going to cross the tweet at over 8k hz.


OP as you already found out these speakers will not net you the bass response that your stock ones did. Don't feel bad though, you are not alone. My HHR came with a Pioneer amplified system with ALL speakers being 2 ohm speakers. From what I have been able to gather the factory amp was only supplying 15 watts per channel X 6 channels. With 7 speakers and one of them being a DVC sub that ment that that 15 watts going to the front was running both the front mid and tweet combined. So roughly 7 watts to the mids each. I replaced the factory speakers and amp with Polk DB's in the doors and a PPI 900.4 running them off the front channels. this is 145w rms potential output to those Polks and yet I had NO midbass in comparison to the stocks at 7 watts each. I do not even think that I will get as much bass from the Polks when I seal and deaden the doors as I did with the stockers. FWIW I actually removed the factory sub at one point and played just the front and rear speakers and had more bass then the factory sub could put out LOL.
 

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OEM speakers are generally very efficient(but of poor quality), and do not require much power to produce lower frequencies.
Your Alpines were designed to handle much more power than your stock system can provide and won't give you the same level of bass output as stock speakers.
^^ listen to this guy.

A lot of people seem to forget that stock speakers are full range drivers and usually receive a full range signal. They have no built-in crossovers or caps of any kind. They also have very lightweight cones, very loose suspensions, and a gnat's nut of Xmax. Combine that with their high efficiency, you get a quite a bit of bass off little power. Put some serious power to them and they will distort like crazy.

Aftermarket speakers (coaxials for example) are the complete opposite. They have two separate drivers, built-in crossovers or caps, heavier cones, tighter suspensions, and lower efficiency. Ever notice how it takes more power to get an aftermarket coax as loud as the stockers? Most aftermarket manufacturers assume you will be using subs to pick up the bass.


I just remembered an old thread on here that you might find interesting: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/13021-2001-accord-stock-midbass-wow.html
 
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