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Really ? Ya' think ?

We went to a Christian rock concert last night and it was freaking phenomenal ! :) Zach Williams... who is basically Southern Rock, and Country influenced (since Christian is not really a Genre.. I've heard Christian music that was too heavy metal for me :) lol)
So it was in a church that seated about 1000. Were were center stage, about 6 rows back. The crowd was all age groups from kids, to 70's.. maybe even a few 80's ! More 20-30's though.
Now, as I said, the sound was fantastic. Great separation, and lots of clean power. The thing that really got me though, was that being a guy that sits in the cab of a vehicle with an 18" sub and 3Kwts on a regular basis, even to me, that bass was LOUD and solid ! I kept looking at the gray haired folks in front of me and couldn't believe they could handle it !

And another thing... Why won't my GF let me play my truck stereo that loud when she's with me ?

I wanted to ask all these people, "Now come on, why wouldn't you want this in your car" ? :) lol THIS is why everyone who loves music needs a high powered car audio (or home) stereo system :)

BTW, Zach Williams lives and records in Nashville, the Music Capitol of the US. And his recording are fantastic as well. Great for demo's ;)

That was SO awesome !
Still stoked :)
 

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Mercedes CLK200 Kompressor, C208, 141kW
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Dynamics i suppose, the loudness war meant lots of compression in mastered music. Live stuff tends to have lots of transients, so you can get a high SPL kick to the chest from the bass drum without the fatigue of an overall loudness.
There's this weird flex that when everything is loud, nothing is. So you end up turning the volume knob up more and more to get the "kick", but you end up listening to a massive wall of sound that doesn't sound good nor loud.
 

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Not while driving.. i like to hear what is going on with my car from road noise, engine and turbo.

I usually hear stuff while cruising that no gauge will pick up like a speed dependent flutter that was not there, which on new cars that are sealed pretty good, means a wire hanging out the door and the little USB cable letting air in.
 

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There is a guy on YouTube called Dan Worrall who covers loudness from a mix / mastering engineer perspective.

People crafted louder and louder mixes at the expense of dynamics / transients / headroom. The ubiquitous radio mix.

I work in TV and it was a big issue with adverts during drama & films especially where the adverts would be hideously loud. The old weighted VU meter didn't cut it, so we defined the LU (loudness unit) measured from full scale - lufs for short. This gives you a value that's better aligned to the perceived loudness.

The joke now is most streaming services normalise to -14lufs so you can pump your mixes to like -8lufs but you'll just get 6db docked by the streaming provider and all you've done is reduced your true peak by 6db. Mastering engineers know this, and aim for -14 now.
 

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There is a guy on YouTube called Dan Worrall who covers loudness from a mix / mastering engineer perspective.

People crafted louder and louder mixes at the expense of dynamics / transients / headroom. The ubiquitous radio mix.

I work in TV and it was a big issue with adverts during drama & films especially where the adverts would be hideously loud. The old weighted VU meter didn't cut it, so we defined the LU (loudness unit) measured from full scale - lufs for short. This gives you a value that's better aligned to the perceived loudness.

The joke now is most streaming services normalise to -14lufs so you can pump your mixes to like -8lufs but you'll just get 6db docked by the streaming provider and all you've done is reduced your true peak by 6db. Mastering engineers know this, and aim for -14 now.
ok but what does it all mean basil? what do us humans do?

i find my over all volume is lower then before but everything is better. its still loud, just not noisy?
 

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Step 1 - get a decent source like Tidal, you'll be shocked how much deeper the music is over Spotify etc

Step 2 - get it cleanly out of the source ideally at the max bit rate and bit depth you can. Android for example resamples everything to 48k, so you might want to look at tidal native player / DAC.

Step 3 - get your gain structure right, plenty of headroom in there.

My 2c, it's a pretty universal set of rules though... Clean signal, keep it clean
 

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Even Tidal HiFi has a lot of loudness variance. There is even a volume leveling option, but I don't like it.
 

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how many bloody subscription services to i need? spotify, tidal, netflix, amazon, disney plus, crave.
None (if you want truly uncompressed bit perfect audio.) My kids use Apple Music cause they're Apple snobs who can't break their iPhone addiction and don't care about quality. My wife and I use Amazon cause it's free with Prime and better than Sirius XM. For demos and critical listening all my music is downloaded from HDTracks in WAV format at 24/48 or better.

As with most things in life - you get what you pay for - music is no different.

As for the OP - having worked in large scale live audio for 3 decades and either contracted, advised, worked in production or participated in live Progressive Christian Music for the last decade - and let me preface this with; its been my observation that people will tolerate live music with the energy associated with a live performance much more than the recorded version. If you get involved in the new Christian Praise Music Scene there's been a prevailing sentiment that's coming from the Pastoral/Clergy level who are mostly in their 40s and 50s like us who grew up with a friend or family member who had 2 x 15s in their hatchback that the overall average SPL be limited to a certain OSHA managed exposure level that's measured from an A-Weighted (ignores bass) perspective. They don't care what you do with the "Bass Knob" (and yes - I've been asked to setup Churches with that very thing) and the result is chest crushing, vision blurring, bass levels that most National Touring Acts would never allow simply due to the fact that it can get hard to distinguish the vocals (but then most Churches scroll the lyrics as well) with that much bass.

The new digital consoles with their automixes and built in effects/ compression mean that you rarely get a fully uncompressed concert unless you're at a mega church with a full time production crew and audio engineer but it's still much less compressed than the studio version and not subjected to the vagaries of digital compression and format conversion. Then the self powered, full dsp built in, PA speakers that have their own protection means you can't drive them into distortion unless the signal you're sending them is distorted before hand and it all adds up to a much higher SPL capability for transients and energy than the old days where you got killed by feedback way before you got to those levels.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
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how many bloody subscription services to i need? spotify, tidal, netflix, amazon, disney plus, crave.
How about just using lossless files on a usb drive? Everyone seems to forget about the "old" way that works without needing the internet and all of the compromises that come with internet dependence.
 

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Really ? Ya' think ?

We went to a Christian rock concert last night and it was freaking phenomenal ! :) Zach Williams... who is basically Southern Rock, and Country influenced (since Christian is not really a Genre.. I've heard Christian music that was too heavy metal for me :) lol)
So it was in a church that seated about 1000. Were were center stage, about 6 rows back. The crowd was all age groups from kids, to 70's.. maybe even a few 80's ! More 20-30's though.
Now, as I said, the sound was fantastic. Great separation, and lots of clean power. The thing that really got me though, was that being a guy that sits in the cab of a vehicle with an 18" sub and 3Kwts on a regular basis, even to me, that bass was LOUD and solid ! I kept looking at the gray haired folks in front of me and couldn't believe they could handle it !

And another thing... Why won't my GF let me play my truck stereo that loud when she's with me ?

I wanted to ask all these people, "Now come on, why wouldn't you want this in your car" ? :) lol THIS is why everyone who loves music needs a high powered car audio (or home) stereo system :)

BTW, Zach Williams lives and records in Nashville, the Music Capitol of the US. And his recording are fantastic as well. Great for demo's ;)

That was SO awesome !
Still stoked :)
if you are ever near McClellan on Dudley during the day, turn your system up and drive by core and main, that is where I work, Its across the street from the runway, I wanna hear your system
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
if you are ever near McClellan on Dudley during the day, turn your system up and drive by core and main, that is where I work, Its across the street from the runway, I wanna hear your system
I'd be glad to swing by there sometime, and give you a demo :) Shoot me a PM. I think the truck sounds good... but not really that loud. I mean, it depends on the recording, but I'm a stickler for backing off at the first red flicker on my clip indicator.
 

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I think a lot of it has to do if you are really like the songs. My GF and I both love live music.

She says that I listen to the same songs mostly from the 80s and 90s. She rarely lets me get the volume over 10 out of 40.

But she listens to newly recorded Alternative Indy Rock that most of the songs are very poorly recorded that I can't stand to listen to them. So we are back down to 10 out of 40 on the volume knob & on some of her songs, I would really like to just turn the system off.

When it is a song that we both like then magically the volume quickly goes up to concert level volumes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think a lot of it has to do if you are really like the songs. My GF and I both love live music.

She says that I listen to the same songs mostly from the 80s and 90s. She rarely lets me get the volume over 10 out of 40.

But she listens to newly recorded Alternative Indy Rock that most of the songs are very poorly recorded that I can't stand to listen to them. So we are back down to 10 out of 40 on the volume knob & on some of her songs, I would really like to just turn the system off.

When it is a song that we both like then magically the volume quickly goes up to concert level volumes.
Well I'm sure their is some truth to that. But my GF and I enjoy a lot of the same music, so typically when we are out in the truck together (as we were earlier) I switch the Bluetooth to her phone and let her pick the music. When it's a song I really like, or a cool sounding recording, I'll crank it up to 20 or 24... But certainly never the 32-34 I'll crank it to when I'm out by myself 😄
 

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Can't ever get my lady to listen to my volume levels. She will, but she gets that reflexive grimace that shows she's trying to let me be happy, but it's bothering her. Can't really let that go on. I love that girl.
 
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