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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
With regard to signal/DSP all I know is when there is no music playing or With low passage part I have zero background noise and I mean none. All I hear is the music and it’s a wonderful difference. Dynamic.
 

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I debated and compared going this route (topping). Unfortunately optical is capped at 96khz, so if you want highest possible you’re stuck going spdif. The only 2 helix with coax in is the ultra and the pro. I needed 10 channels so the pro fit the bill, but also needed 8 channel amp for components. After calculating in high quality audioquest coax cable($$$) for topping to helix, high quality amp that was better than 107 s/n, high quality rca cables… the v eight won and also has AOC coprocessor for the conductor which is half the price of director and much easier to integrate during install. Besides I have iPhone 12 and charge via MagSafe mount so helix not playing well with apple wasn’t a dealbreaker.
Ok BatMan… Do you hear up to 48 kHz?
Do you have a hearing test that shows it?


... All I was getting at is I don’t buy cheap things for high end equipment because it’s usually cheap for a reason and usually has no longevity.
Don’t let a salesman hear you, or they will know exactly what to do after that.


... The topping may very well be a good route but it’s also another piece in the chain that could fail and also requires more interconnects(usb in plus optical or spdif out). From everything I’ve read about helix stuff, it’s all extremely reliable.
I would not fret too much about the Topping failing.
Maybe the Helix is more durable, but the Topping gear measures well in general.


I suggest you <…> before making yourself look any dafter …
I have not seen that word used in a sentence like that before.
 
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I am not using any special cables or wires In my setup. Standard RCA’s and speaker wire. I have never gotten into cables not that I have not tried som just don’t see the benefit. I have tried to be reasonable in my current SQ build which in my original post was the point. I come from the world of simple stupid and less is more.

I kept the equipment within a reasonable budget. Did entire install myself. Tuned with help of my local dealer who I bought the equipment and spent hours tweeting with DSP. the end result in an amazing system. During my absence from car audio (10 yrs) I got into Ho,e and headphone audio. I have tried to take some of those experiences and bring theme into car audio the best I could.

If you have ever heard are good home audio setup in. 2.1 setup then what you can experience is a holographic 3D presentation out of two speakers and a sub. This is the presentation I have tried to reproduce in my car and frankly I have nailed it. My sound stage in in ge middle out past her windshield. The instrument separation is distinct and localized in the presentation, there is great left to right separation when the material is recordEd in such a way. The subwoofer blends nicely and sounds like it’s coming out of front speakers.

Sometimes I think my car is better than my home, that’s until I really crank on my home and realize not quite but damn close.

I recently got to hear a SQ quality close to completion car and of course I am biased but my system was just as good. He probably spent twice as much as I did.

Anyway good luck to all.
 

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As others have stated if you truly want to preserve the best signal quality you can then IMO you've got 1 unnecessary DA/AD conversion in your signal chain. You can output digital from your phone directly into your DSP with either the Topping unit or a USB/Toslink converter. I've been using the unit below and have not had a single issue. Best of luck!

Douk Audio U2
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I used that douk unit and it didn’t work for me. It produced and very strange digital feedback sound but come to find out it was by Apple Camera Adapter that was bad. I may try it again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I remember ready something about digital to digital conversion can cause problems (jitter) versus analog to digital which is what my set up is.

I think I will just stay with what I have.

thanks
 

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I remember ready something about digital to digital conversion can cause problems (jitter) versus analog to digital which is what my set up is.

I think I will just stay with what I have.

thanks
Jitter is only a concern during a Digital to Analog conversion, Digital to Digital is simply taking the 1 and 0 and converting them to a different kind of 1 and 0 so they always maintain there finite value. With a D/A conversion the finite digital value can vary once converted to analog due to clock differences (this part gets way over my head). There is no way to avoid a D/A conversion in your signal chain which is why using a good DAC is important, but also minimizing the number of D/A conversion will reduce the number of times you can introduce jitter.

Tl;dr - the less D/A conversion you have, the less jitter you will have, the cleaner your signal will be.
 

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Sometimes I think my car is better than my home, that’s until I really crank on my home and realize not quite but damn close.
...
Maybe work on the home system then?

(It is usually harder to get a car to stage and image as well as in a room without side windows and speakers that can be moved around.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
My point was that if my car is rivaling my home with regard to imaging and soundstage then I’m doing something right. It’s easier to get a home system to do those things than a car.
 

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remember ready something about digital to digital conversion can cause problems (jitter) versus analog to digital which is what my set up is.
You are going from a digital source to analog 3.5mm/RCA then back to digital within the DSP. So you are in fact doing digital to digital, just through a side trip of lossy analog.

The idea that an extra trip to analog and back will somehow purify your signal is in the realm of audiophiles. Car audio folks who are into sound quality generally avoid that kind of woo like the plague. That may be the source of some of the tension here; you are describing an audiophile approach to source signal, not an SQ approach.
 

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You are going from a digital source to analog 3.5mm/RCA then back to digital within the DSP. So you are in fact doing digital to digital, just through a side trip of lossy analog.

The idea that an extra trip to analog and back will somehow purify your signal is in the realm of audiophiles. Car audio folks who are into sound quality generally avoid that kind of woo like the plague. That may be the source of some of the tension here; you are describing an audiophile approach to source signal, not an SQ approach.
But then one gets to use the $$ interconnects;)
 
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I remember ready something about digital to digital conversion can cause problems (jitter) versus analog to digital which is what my set up is.

I think I will just stay with what I have.

thanks
Personally I would await a problem to happen before trying to fix it.
Most gear has some buffering and ability to sync with the input, so it may be a leftover for the glory days of CD and digital in the 80s and 90s?

Clearly if it all goes to $hit, you could/should try it then... But now is a “bit” soon IMO.
 

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I remember ready something about digital to digital conversion can cause problems (jitter) versus analog to digital which is what my set up is.

I think I will just stay with what I have.

thanks
Sorry but that’s not a thing… more conversions is however a thing, but feel free to ignore the elephant sat with you 🙈
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I agree that I am taking an audiophile approach as most use external DAC‘s in high quality home systems and I am trying to implement that approach in my car. This is why I went down this road. Changing over to usb digital into the DSP is for a rainy day as I do not see that value at this point.
 

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I agree that I am taking an audiophile approach as most use external DAC‘s in high quality home systems and I am trying to implement that approach in my car.
Does it help?

The dynamic range is home system is often touted as past <95 dB.
Perhaps a car could be lower than that?
 
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