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Discussion Starter #1
Well, this is my first thread. Been a lurker for a while, finally came out of hiding :)

I've read quite a few articles about sound deadening, some of the things I've learned on the way:

* eDead sucks. What a shame because it's super cheap :laugh:
* RAAMmat and CDT tiles offer the best bang for the buck.
* Covering everything up doesn't necesarily improve SQ (guess the benefits of covering up more area are asymptothical).
* Apart from the mat, you need "other stuff" for best results.

Now, my question is about "the other stuff", AKA CCF & MLV.

What I've read is that CCF is needed as a separator between the mat and the MLV. The thing is, I don't have the money to buy MLV :(. I live in Guatemala, so the added shipping cost of MLV is way too expensive for me right now.

So I'm thinking about just using some RAAMmat on the doors and firewall, and sticking some Ensolite IUO Peel and Stick on top.

But, as stated before, CCF is used as a spacer between the mat and MLV, so adding just the CCF on top of the mat would be worthless, right? However, the "how to" section of raamaudio.com suggest that one uses the Ensolite on top of the mat.

So what do you suggest? Just raammat? or raammat + ensolite?

Thanks in advance.
 

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CCF works as a gasket - it has no useful acoustical properties on its own. Don't give up on finding a local source for your barrier. It's really only called mass loaded vinyl or MLV in the US. Most other places call it "flexible sound barrier" or something else function rather than composition based. Variations on translations of that phrase may find something. If not, how about lead sheeting?
 

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Raammat + Ensolite

I use this combination, and I believe in the product and the guy behind it!
 

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CCF works as a gasket - it has no useful acoustical properties on its own. Don't give up on finding a local source for your barrier. It's really only called mass loaded vinyl or MLV in the US. Most other places call it "flexible sound barrier" or something else function rather than composition based. Variations on translations of that phrase may find something. If not, how about lead sheeting?
x2. The only thing CCF could do on it's own is keep two piece of material from rattling against each other, say the back of a plastic door panel and the sheet metal it is in contact with. CCF would act as an isolator/separator or a "gasket" as Don said. But if you don't have that problem then you don't need it. And if you do, you certainly don't need to cover your whole door with it. Spot treatment will do.
 

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Someones got to carry MLV near you...
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks for all the great advice. Definetly gonna get the RAAMmat + Ensolite preparing for the future if I manage to get some MLV.

The thing is, here in Guatemala people don't worry much about SQ. In fact, you can barely find overpriced Dynamat (yeah, imagine THAT), and people think that Bose is THE **** haha... so finding a provider and the right materials is VERY difficult.

Hadn't considered sheeting, but my car is like 80hp so I can't load it with much weight...

In case I don't find MLV, is there a decent substitute material?
 

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Look for the MLV in other places... I got mine from a firm that caters to the industry for noise blocking for machinery.
 

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Thanks for all the great advice. Definetly gonna get the RAAMmat + Ensolite preparing for the future if I manage to get some MLV.

The thing is, here in Guatemala people don't worry much about SQ. In fact, you can barely find overpriced Dynamat (yeah, imagine THAT), and people think that Bose is THE **** haha... so finding a provider and the right materials is VERY difficult.

Hadn't considered sheeting, but my car is like 80hp so I can't load it with much weight...

In case I don't find MLV, is there a decent substitute material?
SQ is more of an advanced goal. Fundamentally, any door install should use CLD+CCF+MLV because the main thing you are trying to achieve is a solid baffle that will isolate the front from the rear waves, and at the same time keeping the rear wave out and noise out of the cabin.

It like saying you are going to make home speakers and will be using tin cans as the enclosure because you're not really into SQ. Inconceivable ;):)

Many people put 10 times the money into the door midbass then they do into the upgrade/update of that enclosure. IMO, doing the opposite and using a $20 speaker will give you better results. Especially in the midbass which is hardest most sought after part to achieve.
 

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Guess I should have read a little more. I bought some eDead already. Sad to hear it's not that great. Oh well, since it's so cheap I'll still use it. Now on to the MLV and CCF learning curve.
 

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Some of the Elemental products are just fine for the money. Others, like their sound deadening, not so much. I've come to think eD is as much about marketing to people who might not be the most knowledable as they are about developing audio products.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've got $40 speakers in my doors. Didn't know I was an audiophile :D
lol

To be honest, I didn't realize the importance of sound deadening 'till I installed the whole equipement and everything started rattling :laugh:

I made custom pods for the speakers, they're made out of MDF and leatherette. They provide some mass and it sounds decent at low volume, but when I turn up the knob they're so powerful the vibrations are driving me mad!! Also, people say that this woofers have excelent mid-bass response, but as of now I'm not getting much :( to much air leakage trough the door panels...



Can't wait for the moment the mat & ensolite arrives, it should be a HUGE improvement.
 

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lol

To be honest, I didn't realize the importance of sound deadening 'till I installed the whole equipement and everything started rattling :laugh:

I made custom pods for the speakers, they're made out of MDF and leatherette. They provide some mass and it sounds decent at low volume, but when I turn up the knob they're so powerful the vibrations are driving me mad!! Also, people say that this woofers have excelent mid-bass response, but as of now I'm not getting much :( to much air leakage trough the door panels...



Can't wait for the moment the mat & ensolite arrives, it should be a HUGE improvement.


Let us know how it goes. :)
 

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Blocking sound requires mass - no way around it. Whether you use 1 lb/ft² MLV or 1 lb/ft² lead, you'll end up in the same place.
Is there a good detailed thread about installing the MLV & foam?? I've seen lots of posts that show the mat w/foil backing (although I understand some say that covering the car in that type product is wasting time & money) but not so many that explain the how-to / where-to install MLV

Also an off topic question for Don ... I see you are in MD ... do you have a retail establishment where I could call or come by to learn more & buy product?? Gas is probably cheaper then shipping :)

Thanks,

Michael in MD
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It's near impossible to find MLV, I've searched for it everywhere.

The only thing I found is Glass Wool, according to a chart I found, a 25mm mat can absorb .5 @ 1000hz and .15 @ 125hz, so it's pretty effective

The material is very light and can be compressed down to about 3mm thick, so it's usable in most places of the car.

Has anyone had experience with this thing? It's cheap, like $1.25 / SF...
 

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I have some Black Hole im clearing out.. Since we no longer carrying.. let me know if interested....

BLACK HOLE 1 SEAL 12X36X.125 FLEXIBLE VISCOELASTIC DAMPING MATERIAL $45.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 SEAL 12X36X.125 FLEXIBLE VISCOELASTIC DAMPING MATERIAL $45.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 SEAL 12X36X.125 FLEXIBLE VISCOELASTIC DAMPING MATERIAL $45.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 SEAL 12X36X.125 FLEXIBLE VISCOELASTIC DAMPING MATERIAL $45.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 SEAL 12X36X.125 FLEXIBLE VISCOELASTIC DAMPING MATERIAL $45.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 FOIL 12.5X36X.068 BUTYL RUBBER/ALUMINUM DAMPING MATERIAL $40.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 MAT 12X18X.125 BLEXIBLE VISC. DAMPING MATERIAL $70.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 MAT 12X18X.125 BLEXIBLE VISC. DAMPING MATERIAL $70.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 FIVE 12X18X1.5 FIVE LAYER ABSORBTION PAD - 10 PER CASE $175.00 NEW
BLACK HOLE 1 FIVE 12X18X1.5 FIVE LAYER ABSORBTION PAD - 10 PER CASE $175.00 NEW
 

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It's near impossible to find MLV, I've searched for it everywhere.

The only thing I found is Glass Wool, according to a chart I found, a 25mm mat can absorb .5 @ 1000hz and .15 @ 125hz, so it's pretty effective

The material is very light and can be compressed down to about 3mm thick, so it's usable in most places of the car.

Has anyone had experience with this thing? It's cheap, like $1.25 / SF...
Did you try searching under different topics? Like acoustic vinyl?
I got a few possibilities under that search heading, but I didn't crunch the numbers to see how it fared against others...
http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/noise_barrier/vinylbar.htm
http://www.soundprooffoam.com/vinyl-barrier.html
http://www.allnoisecontrol.com/products/VinylSoundBarrier.cfm


There's a thread running about MLV at home depot too. Not quite as thick, but I think Don was going to snag some and see what it's like.
http://diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119256
 
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