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Best bass you will ever experience. That’s the payoff. And people who think ib doesn’t get loud are crazy. The subs will play high as well. Not sure about that one.
inwould do a baffle begins the rear seat and just seal up the rear deck. Don’t worry about there trunk being sealed.
Time to do it depends on ability and equipment on hand. 30 hours is stupid crazy long time. I did my first one when I was 16 with 2 pieces of crap plywood and a skill saw and a jig saw. It was 2 kicker 15 free air.

also, the bm is not a sub I would use for ib.
30hrs sounded crazy high to me too, maybe he just didn't want to do it.
I talked to nick @ si last week about it. He said they'd work great ib so no worries!
 

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Definitely ignore the ports (like he said) those ports are in opposition of how IB works, they would allow the rear wave back through, which defeats the purpose.

There is ONE exception... Tailgate parties.
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Where if its not bolted down.. Windows are not up. Car doors are NOT locked. It walks away.
This set up with the ports are what I call the Brazilian Bass Bomb. Up goes the volume. Boom goes your woofers.
Not in a nice way. But your Trunk stays open at the McDonalds you hang out at. Car doors and windows up!

And yes, I misspoke about something. I/B is not Superior or the BEST for every application as far as Sound Quality is concerned.

The magic bullet comes from how WELL it works with space in the cabin.
Do any of you remember the Isobaric subwoofer box Advent use to sell on Crutchfield? That was an AMAZING S.Q. Subwoofer in the right car. And a MAGNET for BROKEN WINDOWS back in the day.

I don't know if it was just me, but it was one of the FIRST that I heard almost nothing when the woofers were stroking hard. It was extremely well behaved, & did not make any Mechanical noises when playing Organ Music. Linearity was about as good as it could get as well as a Flat response in most Minivans, hatchbacks, and SUV's at the time.

I can't be alone on this. But Organ music has some VERY low frequency content that is felt more then heard.
Its a shame all these boxes were either moved inside the home, or junked out as the woofers blew up and become hand me downs.

The whole benefit factor of I/B from my point of view, is just that LACK of Distortion that is possible with large drivers not moving much --working in a perfectly controlled linear operation. The only way to get better is using something like a Velodyne woofer with Servo Control built in. But not many were what I call S.Q. woofers. They did have their own challenges and problems.


Joppe Peelen (the dude that makes his own Flat Panel Speakers) I think he used a variation of Servo Controlled woofers on his speakers in this video bellow. I got to see them in his live stream as he showcased them before the audio show he went too. Bug him about making a single video for them. And make fun of him for looking like some Movie star. The guy is really an amazing D.I.Y. Speaker designer. No one I know can do flat panel speakers like Joppe Peelen. Magic I tell ya.

He has a Buddy that makes Servo controlled speakers I think in the Netherlands. I forgot the company name, but the prices for the woofers are really amazing for what you are getting since Velodyne no longer makes car audio subwoofers with active servo. I think the Audio company got spun off this last year.
The small company Joppe featured in his live stream builds the Servo into ANY WOOFER you want to use. That is what sets this company apart in my opinion. A TRUE D.I.Y. option on the cheap.

I can't stress enough the value of what you are getting from this small company.

If you want to turn heads as IASCA, USAC , MECA etc, This may be the ticket that gets you in the winner's circle. They even offer DIY kits that you can install yourself where the accelerometer fits inside the dust cap. No Frankenstein required.

Rockford Fosgate and to my knowledge Kicker, is working on something like that. It uses lasers and is only for testing speakers in the lab at the moment. Not for prime time.

IB + Servo control + DSP is no longer some unattainable dream like it used to be. And the simplicity of it all. Few understand just how much goes into making a Proper subwoofer box that matches not only the woofer, but tuned to match the response of your car cabin like Stradivarius himself would craft the finest Violin in the history of mankind cherished by musicians and music lovers alike.
You can make a box for the woofer, but the box also needs to made for the space you put it in. That's why Peter does such a phenomenal world class installations.

I keep saying you don't need a Swiss Bank account to get a Hifi in your car to a level that is simply something reserved for only the most esoteric installs. Labor, love of music and time is all you need to hear music so well reproduced, headphone Aficionados will take notice.

Some will say that the Baffle for the IB does not have to be so thick. HOGWASH! When you understand how much Motor force a subwoofer driver is capable of doing, you understand why bracing is so important.
With the baffle only having one single piece with no other real bracing, the size and mass is CLEARLY AUDIBLE.
Do not overlook the baffle on an IB. Everything else can be taken care of afterwards. The Baffle is the heart and soul of any Infinite Baffle in car audio installations.

Those of you with Work Vans or are in the Trades where you use your Van for doing work or carrying supplies? IB is a hands down winner since most of you already have a plywood wall there to hang tools or supplies.
2 12 inch woofers like the Blaupunkt that costs nothing with a nice stage up front is a great way to pass the time going from job to job.
A Low profile Poor man's option is to get the Bose Flat woofers, and 2 of them from a Merc or Caddy, and install those so they don't take any room. Kind of like a Wall set up for SPL rides. It no SQ Driver. But it is a great fast and cheap way to get great sound in your work van that takes up almost zero space for your tools and supplies. Just stay away from the Yellow Spider models as they have Coil rub issues.

The last part of the Puzzle is an optional Tactile transducer (Bass Shaker like the Aura) mounted just under the seat or seat back. This is where i like it and is the ONLY reason why they install Bass Boost circuits in amps IMO. Works best if you use smaller drivers like a 8 inch or the smaller 6" subwoofers in an I.B due to space constraints to fill in the last missing part of the very low subsonic bass some find very pleasing as I do.


I'm sorry about being so wordy, but I LOVE I/B installs. It's been my Favorite for 25 years or since High School when I went to my very first sound off Competition here in Portland at the Horse racing track. And I was in Middle school back then when I first saw it up close and got to hear it. The 90's was the GOLDEN age of car audio. I hope the Roaring 2020's is going to be the next one. :)

For you young kids out there? Do it. It's simple. Any amp will get you in the door. And once you hear it? it's hard to go back to anything else. Simple tools to make the baffle. And not that much skill needed for a good install. You can make it in shop class in a single period. (Time in the classroom for the non US folks) Sadly. Most shop classes in the USA closed their doors. What a shame. Same with Automotive "shop" classes in most US high schools. Bummer.

So try it out. You simply can't go wrong. And it teaches you ALL sorts of stuff about acoustics. Even the Cheapest driver will do until you get the Hifi Bug. Next thing you know? You're looking for JBL woofers that cost more than your car. Or Imagine Dynamics woofers from back in the day.

I'm going to look if I can find that Amazing Honda Accord with the Image Dynamics Waveguides in my old copies of Car Stereo magazines I have. I think I still have this issue as well.
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And here is a nice photo of what it looks like from 1993 for a Rear deck install.
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I have to go relieve myself now..

A few links to some Catalogs from Pioneer that are just SIMPLY amazing. Some go into some IB setups and the woofers made just for that.

I will see if I can fire up my scanner and copy some Old Periodicals I have from the 90's where IB was the thing. Most were rear deck or parcel shelf installs. Lots of specs and tips to make your install today easy and give you some ideas for your own installs. As well as Thiele/Small specs for the drivers used back in the day & other optimizations & requirements that my help out in your build.

Most of the Books from the time really were written by people who wrote books for a living but only had a minute understanding of anything CAR audio. I never found any that talked about Car Audio from an enthusiast standpoint or an audio engineer's perspective. Most of the stuff I have found is from the 1990's with a few new expectations.
Most published for the Home theater crowd and Pro sound environments.

Strangely? Mix magazine spoke about it in detail in one of their articles as they were talking about Mobile Mixing vans. Its was the strangest thing I have ever read in that magazine. When they got rid of the stash of them from the library, I grabbed every single copy I could get my hands on. It went into more how to optimize for mixing rather then reproduction.
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A few honorable mentions I have looked at over the years.

Tonys Mustang a SMD member featured or him.

A feeler thread on how the novice states "Its never been done", and only for the "golden ears" LMAO

2017 thread

For a Boat.

Slot loaded. and a great article pointed to Nelson Pass. I think the link is shot.

CULT of the Infinite baffle.
And the driver selection threads that has some drivers recommendations for IB setups.

A thread from 2018
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From a Lexus Form and a JL audio setup on the rear deck.
 

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The AE SBP series are the best AE IB subs and in the running for best IB subs on the market. I know AE has their IB series but the SBP is known on DIYMA as the better IB sub.
Im leaning towards them for my car.
Per chance are you familiar with Audiomobile subs?
 

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2 12a are about the bare minimum I personally would use and did use back in 1989-1991. However, if at all possible put 15s if you can. 12’s are nice but the 15’s are awesome when you want to get a bit crazy. I loved my 12s but those 15s were fun as well and cool thing is they can be made to sound as delicate and precise as you want but the 15s and larger can do things 12s can not. But I am a recovering sql guy trying to preserve my hearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
The AE SBP series are the best AE IB subs and in the running for best IB subs on the market. I know AE has their IB series but the SBP is known on DIYMA as the better IB sub.
Just curious what makes them better than the IBAU. The SBP has a stronger motor, but the IBAU has more xmax, would higher xmax mean it would be louder? Not taking anything else into it, since they are both great
 

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How high can the SBP play reasonably?
Higher than you'll ever want to play a speaker that is behind you. The low inductance of the SBP will allow it to play cleanly well into midbass, frequencies that you wouldn't want a speaker that is behind you playing.

Used in a pair of home speakers, the 15" SBP will play high enough (on axis) to pair with a small midrange speaker. They play much higher than they would ever need to in a car. If you were able to install them in front of you, you could pair 15" SBP's with a 3" midrange, and a tweeter. You could easily take them to 500hz, and any 3" midrange can take over from there.

These speakers weren't designed specifically as automotive IB subwoofers, they were designed to be the woofer in $20,000 home stereo speakers. In a car, a lot of their bandwidth goes to waste.
 

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Higher than you'll ever want to play a speaker that is behind you. The low inductance of the SBP will allow it to play cleanly well into midbass, frequencies that you wouldn't want a speaker that is behind you playing.
So no more than 80hz?
 

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I was typing some edits, reread my post.
Yea thats where my confusion was. I was wondering why a car subwoofer would spec out to 500 hz. I thought it was a typographical error at first. Now it makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. But still 80hz would be the limit for subbass right?
 

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Yea thats where my confusion was. I was wondering why a car subwoofer would spec out to 500 hz. I thought it was a typographical error at first. Now it makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. But still 80hz would be the limit for subbass right?
In theory, you can push a sub as high as about 200hz. But, in my experience 120hz is about as high as you can go before localization kicks in. Most subwoofers don't have a problem playing over 80hz, it's the localization that keeps us from crossing them much higher than that.
 

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I ran $40 pyle 15s IB for a long time, then had to retire that car. They work for a few reasons, one is I only had 500rms on them and they only got maybe quarter inch xmax unless I really pushed them with a bass CD or something. That was overkill the bass would overpower the system and play to 25hz easy and had I turned off the SS filter. The roof would shake when I cranked it up. I tried an 800w amp and it just didn't work better it started to make them obnoxious. With a Fs 20hz the tuning was pretty good and needed minimum EQ, a model showed I was down 1db at 30hz from full IB (100cf). This while I was running a 4x125rms on door comps and coax in rear doors, the whole thing was louder than I needed but very clean with great range at any normal listening volume, and able to thump serious when I wanted to, or at least for my use it did. My rear deck was no way large enough for 15s, I covered it in ply and built the baffle in the passthru for the fold down seat, which that car didn't have so I removed the panel there and it shot thru the seat cushion. I put a grate over the subs for protection. If you have a solid seat you have an issue there or need to space the seat out. I personally always use 3/4 ply the cheap stuff, I double even triple it where needed. I use truck topper foam to seal it to the car. Ply is great because it holds screws and is way easier to work with. If you want mdf I'd say put it over ply. Most of the time the baffle is so small between the sub and car its not like the ply is going to resonate or vibrate if you build it right and attach it right. The foam seals and damps the whole thing, and makes it removable as well.

Why use 15s, the Fs is lower. If they have high Q and low Fs that means they peak at 30hz (etc) right where you want them. If you use 10s they can work but usually 30hz is reaching for them, which is fine if you don't want real low bass anyway. Using different subs is going to change that of course, its just a guide line, and your car is going to change it too. Why IB, the response tends to be smoother as well, like a (very) large sealed would be. Why IB, you can use your trunk...its lighter than a box so better mpg and handling in small cars even. Install, yes its harder to install I can slap a box together and carpet it in no time compared to fitting a baffle...but its not impossible either. I make a template from cardboard to fit it and that saves a lot of time. Also be very careful about going through the floor and hitting something under it. I end up with a 50-80hz xover but with a lower slope than I'd use on a box, because they are tuned better I don't have to chop them off as hard. With the 15s there I could run 200hz it was not much different, but I hate localization in subs so I don't.
 

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Yes, imickey503, great post!
I can see when using large drivers, or many small ones, that venting the trunk to the outside, especially on a small car, would be beneficial.
I would say for a couple of 12's trunk volume would be a non-issue.
I have read that sealing the trunk too well from the cabin can create difficulties with pressurization when closing doors. Not sure how big a deal it is, but just something to consider.
This summer I installed two 12's IB fashion in my '07 Galant and sealed the trunk from the passenger compartment completely. I however did some fiberglass work to build a sealed passage from the seat belt re-tractor openings in the rear deck to the factory fender vent. Works like a charm, though I can hear the flapper on the vent pop open every time I close a door.
For the speaker baffle behind the rear seat I used two sheets of 3/4" plywood cut to match the contours of the car very closely then glued into place with PL Premium construction adhesive and bolted. The Galant only has a ski pass through and a bunch of wasted space around the backseat bracing, which worked out perfectly for flipping the drivers magnet out. I also bolted a sheet of plywood to the rear deck with sound dampener and closed cell foam to make it more rigid. The install turned out rock solid with no rattles.
The real benefit of the IB install is saving weight and space. I would argue against any magical sound quality bonus vs a properly designed sealed or ported box.

View attachment 261904 View attachment 261902 View attachment 261905 View attachment 261903

(Just ignore the 4X 4" PVC ports in the baffle. That was a little experiment that gave me an extra 6db where it counts, but doesn't factor into this Infinite Baffle discussion.)
super nice install.
question, from your pictures it looks like you have 2 vents in the rear deck, that go from trunk, into passenger rear seat area. Am I correct?
I also have a 2016 Acura ILX and I am wanting to do a IB install.
thanks all.
 

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Hello all, I just need some advice on a IB trunk install. Woofers will be 2 AE IBAU 12”s. I’ve asked around a bit but have gotten mixed advice. My car is a 2016 Acura ILX, so not a lot of trunk space. Basically I’m wondering the location and orientation I should install them. One person told me to put them all the way into the trunk, right behind the back seat facing the front of the car, another person told me more towards the center, facing the front, and another person told me it depends lol. Will be getting 700 watts a piece. Front stage consists of HAT L1 ProR2, L4SE’s, and L8SE’s in the kicks. I don’t know if there is a general rule of thumb for small compact sedans, I’m just a bit lost right now
SQcaliboy81,
Sounds like you will have a very fine daily driver SQ car soon!
I also have a 2016 Acura ILX, that I am wanting to do a IB install in trunk.
I have heard of HAT speakers, I have never listened to them. What made you choose them?
If you do not mind some noob questions..?
are you using OEM speaker locations for front stage?
on your L8SE’s in your kicks, did you make the kicks? Or purchase them pre-made?
what amps are you using.? Are you keeping stock head unit?
I am going to keep my stock head unit, and have a Audio Control LC6-1200 installed, so I can have full DSP and time delay and crossover options, and 6 channel amp.
give me so many options, may do an active 3 way up front.....

Thanks in Advance.
Cheeta
 
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