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Discussion Starter #1
I'm doing an install in a Ford Excursion which is the largest SUV ever made. It has 3 sets of 6x8s. A pair in the front doors, a pair in the rear and a pair behind the rear doors. I'm installing Hertz HSK 165s in the front and rear doors and haven't made a decision on the last pair to be installed near the 3rd row of seats.

My questions?

- Because of the size of this vehicle is it ok to install my 2nd set Hertz tweets in the rear section of the cab for my passengers back there (the vehicle seats 9 passengers / 3 rows)? Or should I have no tweeters in mid & rear of the SUV?
- For the speakers behind the rear doors (further set of speakers from the front), do you recommend that I install a mid-range woofer?

Thanks
 

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Yes, just have the rears play at a lower level than the front.
Theres a guy here by the user name of ppi art collector that is/was doing an install in a large suv i think it was a saburban but he has a build thread and i remember him talking about how he was setting everthing up.
I would most def check it out and send him a pm him. He had a ton of **** going the truck too.
 

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I'm doing an install in a Ford Excursion which is the largest SUV ever made.
nope, that would be the suburban. ford made the excursion to compete with it but it is not as big.
 

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The Ford Excursion measures 226.4 inches in length with a 137.1-inch wheelbase. The SUV's width is 79.9 inches and its height is 77.4 inches. The Excursion provided a standard cargo capacity of 48 cubic feet. However, when the rear seats are removed the maximum cargo capacity improves to 146.4 cubic feet. Its curb weight is 7,361 lbs.

Read more: Ford Excursion Specs | eHow.com Ford Excursion Specs | eHow.com

The Suburban measures 76.8 inches high, 79.1 inches wide and 222.4 inches long. The wheel base spans 130 inches. Inside the vehicle you will find 41.1 inches of headroom in the front row, 38.3 inches of headroom in the second row and 38.1 inches in the third row. Your legroom measure 41.3 inches in the front row, 39.5 inches in the second row and 34.9 inches in the third row. The vehicle has a gross weight of 7,400 lbs. and a maximum payload of 1,657 lbs. You have front ground clearance of 10.5 inches and rear ground clearance of 9.1 inches.

Read more: Chevy Suburban Specs | eHow.com Chevy Suburban Specs | eHow.com
 

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if you want to get technical the Knight XV from Conquest Vehicles is the largest suv. the largest mass produced suv is the suburban as ford no longer makes the excursion.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
nope, that would be the suburban. ford made the excursion to compete with it but it is not as big.

Thanks for correcting him! I bet you are thinking about the Ford Expedition. The Excursion is considered the "KING of SUVs" for a reason. It is a tank!

But this isn't the point. I'm looking for audio input not technical manufacturing details on my Excursion. Call it the "QUEEN of SUVs" for all I care. I'm sure the Travelalls and more classic SUV might even be longer. But none came with a 7.3L diesel and had a 10.5K towing capacity.

Anyway, so tweeters in the rear are a-ok? I just need to mount them to kick panels or somewhere low?
 

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Yes, just have the rears play at a lower level than the front.
Theres a guy here by the user name of ppi art collector that is/was doing an install in a large suv i think it was a saburban but he has a build thread and i remember him talking about how he was setting everthing up.
I would most def check it out and send him a pm him. He had a ton of **** going the truck too.
Yep, working through the three row situation as I type.
Finally got specs on my PPI 3 ways without using the included passive crossovers today from Grizz.

I plan on being able to completely switch off 2nd row and 3rd row at the center console.

It all comes down to if you are going for sq like me because, as so eloquently explained by my amp tech, you will have twice as much cone surface behind you as what's in front of you.

Ponder that one. ;)

I look forward to your install thread and your progress.
Lots of pics please......:D

Officially subscribed.

Edit: So which is bigger? I always thought the Excursion was slightly larger overall.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
 

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Edit: So which is bigger? I always thought the Excursion was slightly larger overall.
It is, the Excursion was bigger than the Sub, I have an expedition that is shorter than the Sub but longer than the Tahoe...... I want a bigger suv when I am done with the Expy. That being said I am in the same boat; big suv, big need for more sound. I have the stock audiophile system and need to do some work on it. I will be watching this thread.
 

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It is, the Excursion was bigger than the Sub, I have an expedition that is shorter than the Sub but longer than the Tahoe...... I want a bigger suv when I am done with the Expy. That being said I am in the same boat; big suv, big need for more sound. I have the stock audiophile system and need to do some work on it. I will be watching this thread.
Thought so.
Would love to have an older Excursion 4x4 with the 7.3L Powerstroke Turbo Diesel.

Not a big fan of the 4R100 Auto transmission though.
I know they put 5-speed manuals in the trucks but I never have seen a manual in an Excursion.
That would be an awesome set up!!!

Also, here's a link to my three row Suburban build if anyone is interested:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/112624-ppi-art-collectors-1997-chevrolet-suburban-old-school-contemporary-build-log-4.html#post1478310

So much still to work through before tear down.
Almost there though. ;)

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thought so.
Would love to have an older Excursion 4x4 with the 7.3L Powerstroke Turbo Diesel.

Not a big fan of the 4R100 Auto transmission though.
I know they put 5-speed manuals in the trucks but I never have seen a manual in an Excursion.
That would be an awesome set up!!!

Also, here's a link to my three row Suburban build if anyone is interested:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/112624-ppi-art-collectors-1997-chevrolet-suburban-old-school-contemporary-build-log-4.html#post1478310

So much still to work through before tear down.
Almost there though. ;)

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
Thanks for the thread link, Brett. Yes, the 7.3L is a diesel in the history books but still can be made to outperform the more modern restricted diesels. It is actually the whole reason why I own a Excursion. And I'm already keeping my eyes out for a bulletproof built 4R100 as there are the weak link. Mine is mint and only has 64K so I've got time!

So I'll check out your write-up. May need a few recommendations from you.
 

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Thanks for the thread link, Brett. Yes, the 7.3L is a diesel in the history books but still can be made to outperform the more modern restricted diesels. It is actually the whole reason why I own a Excursion. And I'm already keeping my eyes out for a bulletproof built 4R100 as there are the weak link. Mine is mint and only has 64K so I've got time!

So I'll check out your write-up. May need a few recommendations from you.
Anyway I can help out let me know. ;)

BTW, I have heard of a few Torque Shift automatic transmission conversions to replace the 4R100 auto.
The Torque shift is absoutely bullet proof but would require a tcm conversion along with some wiring changes.
Might be the best way to go for you in the long run.
Plenty of them out there since they're Ford's Superduty transmission of choice from 2004 to present.

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
 

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Building MY Excursion, too!

Wow, someone else is running along side me! I have a 2000 7.3 Exursion (and trust me, it is a LOT more vehicle than a 'burb) and am doing the sound system now. So far I have fabricated mounts for the HAT Imagine 6.5" drivers going in the front doors. At this point, I think I have been convinced to run them coax as Scott strongly believes that they sound best this way. The speaker mounts fairly high on the door, so it looks like a good starting point.

I have a second pair and thought I would mount them in the back doors...except there is a problem: although the door panel has a speaker grill cutout in it, there is window and door hardware behind it! I assume that this must be made for the 4 door pickup, not the Ex. I can fab a mount further back on the door, but that would likely be a bit close to the door. My plan is probably to just pull the tweeter and use it more as a rear fill sound. Initially I thought I'd just run the front soundstage and sub in the rear, but being SO BIG, I am not sure how that may sound. Any experience to be shared is appreciated!

Sub: 15" driver is going to go in a fiberglass box replacing the stock spare tire holder (switch to a rear bumper w/tire carrier). How the sound will be integrated is going to be interesting.

I have applied DampPro to the doors, floor, and some of the rear area on the sides. MLV covers the floor now, and HOPEFULLY I can get it adequately mounted to the door skin and get the front speakers in. Driving it now, it is so obvious that the road noise is coming laterally through the doors, rather than up through the floor. Quite dramatic!

EDIT: Also - power wires run THROUGH the cab or along the frame rails and up through the body? The latter seems reasonable and fairly easy on a frame-mounted vehicle like this. Thoughts?

The engines are bulletproof, but you are right about the tranny issues. This one had a rebuilt tranny dropped in about 3000 miles ago (not long before I bought it). If this one fails, I am going to try to swap in a 6sp manual. I've done the X-code/B-code/Bilstein swap; wheels/tires; intake, chip, 4" exhaust, CTS for engine monitoring. My focus at this point is getting the audio done. It looks like an upgrade of Big 3 wires, power wires for the amps, power for an inverter, power for a winch, power for aux lights...gonna need some fancy battery terminals, eh?

If you don't mind, I can post alongside you in the same thread; or I can start a separate one. Your call.
 

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Let me bump this back up: specifically looking for any info about my second paragraph above - rear fill speakers in rear doors. The doors and door cards don't really work together, as I can't put a speaker in the door in the location where the grill (and deeper section of the card) are. It will have to go further back.

Is a vehicle this large going to sound strange with just a front soundstage and sub in the 'waayyy back' area?
 

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Let me bump this back up: specifically looking for any info about my second paragraph above - rear fill speakers in rear doors. The doors and door cards don't really work together, as I can't put a speaker in the door in the location where the grill (and deeper section of the card) are. It will have to go further back.

Is a vehicle this large going to sound strange with just a front soundstage and sub in the 'waayyy back' area?
Alright, since you and I are on the same page, meaning trying to create and sq environment in a huge vehicle and still accomodate the other passengers, I will lay out what I have come up with.

I am going to achieve both by doing both.
Please see my build thread if you're interested:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/112624-ppi-art-collectors-1997-chevrolet-suburban-old-school-contemporary-build-log-5.html

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
 

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Alright, since you and I are on the same page, meaning trying to create and sq environment in a huge vehicle and still accomodate the other passengers, I will lay out what I have come up with.

I am going to achieve both by doing both.
Please see my build thread if you're interested:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/112624-ppi-art-collectors-1997-chevrolet-suburban-old-school-contemporary-build-log-5.html

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
Thanks for the link. Our goals are so vastly different that it doesn't really offer as much as I would like. This vehicle is a diesel 4x4 w/ suspension upgrades, bigger wheels/tires, intake/chip/exhaust, bumpers, winch, etc... Primarily it will carry two adults, dog, and gear. On road mostly with significant off-road capability when needed. Doing all of the sound deadening is both for the audio benefit, as well as simply improving daily driving comfort.

I am thinking that I will wire it up CAPABLE for the rear door fill, but get everything else done first and see how it sounds with just the front door speakers. The Imagine seem do run so well as coaxials, and the stock location in the front doors offers reasonable path lengths, that a simple (and stealthy) location makes this part easy. I picked up a Vibe LiteBox 4 channel (thanks for the heads up a few months ago, guys!) that should run one or two sets of the 6.5 Imagine nicely, so all that I really have to add is the rear door wiring and extra set of signal cables.
 

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Personally, I have tried most everything...including no tweeters for the rear sound-stage since I didn't want it pulling my image too far rearward, and I've also EQ'd tweets in rears to prevent the same.

I am now a believer in using "matched" drivers as much as possible...IE I usually stick with the same brand, and I always run tweeters in the rear now, but I will set the level of the rears so that when sitting up front, the rears are just barely audible. By that I mean if you turn them on and off, you can tell they are "missing" when they are off, but they do not materially affect my sound-stage or imaging.

I am about to try Alpine's IMPRINT on the system I am building now.

I've had time alignment for three years now (love it) and Eclipse's "circle surround" as well (doesn't work well without rear speakers), thus my belief in having good quality rear fill speakers in most installations.

For the record, I've also heard some really great three-speaker setups (well, 5 technically) that only have right front, left front, and sub. Simple, clean, pure, and really great imaging.
 

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Personally, I have tried most everything...including no tweeters for the rear sound-stage since I didn't want it pulling my image too far rearward, and I've also EQ'd tweets in rears to prevent the same.

I am now a believer in using "matched" drivers as much as possible...IE I usually stick with the same brand, and I always run tweeters in the rear now, but I will set the level of the rears so that when sitting up front, the rears are just barely audible. By that I mean if you turn them on and off, you can tell they are "missing" when they are off, but they do not materially affect my sound-stage or imaging.

I am about to try Alpine's IMPRINT on the system I am building now.

I've had time alignment for three years now (love it) and Eclipse's "circle surround" as well (doesn't work well without rear speakers), thus my belief in having good quality rear fill speakers in most installations.

For the record, I've also heard some really great three-speaker setups (well, 5 technically) that only have right front, left front, and sub. Simple, clean, pure, and really great imaging.
Why not put the rear fill speakers in the side doors instead of all the way in the back.
That was the point of linking you to my build where I do the same. :)

Bret
PPI-ART COLLECTOR
 

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I concur with the matched sets, hence I bought 2 sets of Imagine 6.5. Honestly, I prefer having the rear sound as well. Time to measure the 2nd row doors and make some speaker mounts. It is so annoying that there are grills and added depth in the door cards, yet they don't begin to work with the structure of the doors!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Let me bump this back up: specifically looking for any info about my second paragraph above - rear fill speakers in rear doors. The doors and door cards don't really work together, as I can't put a speaker in the door in the location where the grill (and deeper section of the card) are. It will have to go further back.

Is a vehicle this large going to sound strange with just a front soundstage and sub in the 'waayyy back' area?
I've got a bunch of questions for you. So in the rear doors, are you saying there is not much depth to mount 6.5" drivers? I haven't actually pulled my panels yet.

Are you installing any speakers behind the rear doors near the 3rd rows? This is what I'm having a hard time with. I'm going to install a matched pair of Hertz HSK 6.5"s in both the front & rear doors with tweeters. I was thinking about then installng a 3rd pair of 6.5s using a midrange driver (maybe ID CX64 V2s) along the 3rd row. But maybe this is a waste and not needed?

Devin
 
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