[tayodell41]

I have 2 15" Big Shoks (same as Atomic ELE) that need reconed because of burnt leads that are burnt inside the cone. I plan on taking off the motors and putting them on either 12 or 15" Audioque baskets and using HDC3 recones to recone them. I drive a 2001 Toyota Camry and I'm trying to get the most dB's out as possible. I was thinking of doing a trunk(pony) wall with 12s but thought that 15s might be louder. Any help is appreciated.

 

[CRUNK]

With all those changes your going to have unknown spec subs, no real way to build the right box without Lms or a ton of testing.

 

[tayodell41]

I am going to run them on 2000-2500 RMS per sub. If I do 15s I'm hoping to get them about 3-4 cf each and if I do 12s I'm gonna try to get about 2-3 cf each.

 

[CRUNK]

Common mistake when building, with no Lms your power handling could go down box size could go up or down? The Fs of the sub will change, People you just can't change things in big ways, i could see if the subs in the series use the same motor, but adding another brand recone kit throws it all off.

 

[tayodell41]

Common mistake when building, with no Lms your power handling could go down box size could go up or down? The Fs of the sub will change, People you just can't change things in big ways, i could see if the subs in the series use the same motor, but adding another brand recone kit throws it all off.

What would you recommend I do?

 

[theoldguy]

boxes are easy. All corners are right angles. Doesnt get much simpler than that

 

[qwertydude]

What would you recommend I do?

The first thing I'd recommend doing is asking if the rebuilder can provide you with some information on what kind of recone kit he's putting in. If you can't get a straight answer you're gonna have to do a lot of work to try to determine the ideal box for the subwoofer. At that point my advice would be run sealed and run it as big as you can.

Since you're starting completely from scratch if you want ported, I think the best thing to do is build a very large box say 4 cubic feet.

After breaking in the suspension of the recone then determine your subwoofer's Fs. With the subwoofer unmounted Run some fixed level test tones through at low power, just enough to see it move a few mm. Then change this frequency up and down 1 hz at a time. The frequency you see the most movement is the Fs. Any higher or lower frequency that causes the subwoofer to move less then you know you're dead on.

This will usually help determine if the subwoofer is more an SQ or SPL type subwoofer. Those with super stiff suspension and high fs in the 40hz or so range tend to be SPL subs. The lower 30hz and below tend to be SQ subwoofers.

Then make a box. This is for testing purposes and you won't end up using it. Experiment with putting blocks of wood in it to take up space and cutting different lengths of 4" diameter PVC pipe and using it at a port. Use WinISD to determine what length to cut the port.

Then it's just a matter of experimenting with box volume and port length. To get a sound you want or with test tones listening if the frequency response is relatively flat.

 

[CRUNK]

The first thing I'd recommend doing is asking if the rebuilder can provide you with some information on what kind of recone kit he's putting in. If you can't get a straight answer you're gonna have to do a lot of work to try to determine the ideal box for the subwoofer. At that point my advice would be run sealed and run it as big as you can.

Since you're starting completely from scratch if you want ported, I think the best thing to do is build a very large box say 4 cubic feet.

After breaking in the suspension of the recone then determine your subwoofer's Fs. With the subwoofer unmounted Run some fixed level test tones through at low power, just enough to see it move a few mm. Then change this frequency up and down 1 hz at a time. The frequency you see the most movement is the Fs. Any higher or lower frequency that causes the subwoofer to move less then you know you're dead on.

This will usually help determine if the subwoofer is more an SQ or SPL type subwoofer. Those with super stiff suspension and high fs in the 40hz or so range tend to be SPL subs. The lower 30hz and below tend to be SQ subwoofers.

Then make a box. This is for testing purposes and you won't end up using it. Experiment with putting blocks of wood in it to take up space and cutting different lengths of 4" diameter PVC pipe and using it at a port. Use WinISD to determine what length to cut the port.

Then it's just a matter of experimenting with box volume and port length. To get a sound you want or with test tones listening if the frequency response is relatively flat.

WOW!!! someone that understands

 

[Sine Swept]

Then after you make a box, make ten more!!

 

[qwertydude]

Oh and if all you're going for is loud, regardless of sound quality, then a ported box is easy. Make the box as big as you can possibly fit and tune the port to equal the subwoofer's Fs. 100% guaranteed to maximize the deebeez.

 

[tayodell41]

Okay well the reason I want to do HDC3 recones is because they're about half the price of ELE recones. Would going with those be better?

 

[cubdenno]

Before anything gets crazy, get them reconed. If the hdc3 fits your budget fine. You can also look at what psi can do.
Anyway, get the recone done, break them in and get the t/s specs. Determine what the best enclosure type.
I agree with qwerty, make a test enclosure to see what works best in the car.

As for size, if you have the space, go 15" if it's going to be tight, go 12" . Easier to get all the port requirements met if you are not scrounging for every cubic millimeter.

 

[tayodell41]

I've emailed psi multiple times and haven't heard anything back from them which is why I then planned to go with HDC3 recones. Anyone know how to get a hold of them? But the basic consensus of this is that using those recones will be much harder than if I just got the ELE or a recone made to fit the sub, correct? http:// Vs625_zpsec95f894.jpg Photo by tayodell41 | Photobucket here is a picture with the dimensions of my trunk. If I do go with 15s, do you all think I could fit a big enough box in there?

 

[qwertydude]

I would say go with the 12 just to be safe, and so that you don't end up taking up all the space in your trunk if the recone happens to need a large box. Since you're porting it, the 12 will have more motor force relative to cone size which will shrink the box volume requirement.

Having an undermotored subwoofer just will require much larger boxes and it might be larger than you can reasonably fit.

 

[cubdenno]

Besides loud, what are you wanting?

I mean my son wants loud. He is wanting to break 150 db. In a solara. Trunk install. Two twelves on 3 kw. And he wants to hit "the lows" as well.

Sometimes there are tradeoffs. Get loud or get low.... Or compromise and come to somewhere in the middle.

So for your case, the first thing is get your motors reckoned into a speaker. Get your t/s specs and plan from there. You are going to have to decide which way to go. A million people can post on this and in the end, it won't matter until you get the speaker and the parameters of that speaker. Then the most important thing will be the enclosure.

 

[cubdenno]

I agree with qwerty. Go with the twelves. You may lose 3-6 db due to displacement, but like qwerty says, better to be safe when it comes to box requirements.

 

[Sine Swept]

Do you have a TL meter?

It would be a worthwhile investment

 

[tayodell41]

Besides loud, what are you wanting?

I mean my son wants loud. He is wanting to break 150 db. In a solara. Trunk install. Two twelves on 3 kw. And he wants to hit "the lows" as well.

Sometimes there are tradeoffs. Get loud or get low.... Or compromise and come to somewhere in the middle.

So for your case, the first thing is get your motors reckoned into a speaker. Get your t/s specs and plan from there. You are going to have to decide which way to go. A million people can post on this and in the end, it won't matter until you get the speaker and the parameters of that speaker. Then the most important thing will be the enclosure.

Well, does loud or low take less box space? The 15" Atomic ELEs require 3.25 cf each. I am very sure that I can custom build a box to fit in my trunk.

 

[tayodell41]

I agree with qwerty. Go with the twelves. You may lose 3-6 db due to displacement, but like qwerty says, better to be safe when it comes to box requirements.

What if I just did one 15" in a really good box? Would that be louder than two 12s?

 

[qwertydude]

Nope. Two twelves have more cone area than 1 15 not to mention, the fact that with 2 12's you've got twice the motor and each motor is pushing less cone area. This leads to more displacement total with more motor force and more power handling.

More than likely also you'll have smaller box requirements for the two twelves than the single 15. A "really" good box for an undermotored 15" will be huge compared to the 2 12's total.

Since you can't even find T/S parameters for the Atomic Speakers and they look like the generic Chinese internet import subs. Better to recone it as a 12 and have an overmotored sub that you can build a proper box for than have an undermotored subwoofer that you can't fit in your trunk because the box is too big.

So like I said, get them both reconed as a 12 build the biggest box you can possibly put in your trunk, and then tune for the Fs you can measure free air after break in. Guaranteed loud. And guaranteed to sound like crap.

You want sound quality? Well you might want to start with subwoofers you can actually get the thiele small parameters for.