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Discussion Starter #1
Ever since i bought my pioneer deh-80prs cd player about a month ago i have been messing around with it understanding what each setting dose and fine tuning everything on a 3 way active setup. Now i got the door speakers tune in for the way i like them but i am still having a hard time getting my subwoofer to play the way it should play. As fare as my settings are under my network mode.

hpf - 4k 12db
mid hpf - 125 12db
mid lpf - 3.5k 12db
lpf - 80hz 24db
auto eq - turn off
auto ta - turn off
loudness - turn on
eq- flat
source level +3

alpine pdx-f6 4 channel amp settings - crossover set to pass
jl audio 25/1 amp settings - crossover set to full with rca deck running into the input jack with the filter freq [hz] turn all the way to max.
 

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When you say that aren't playing the way they should, what do you mean? Not loud enough? Not tight bass? I haven't used the loudness feature, but maybe that has something to do with it.

What subs do you have?
What size and type of box do you have?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
the sub is not beating hard at all like it did before switch deck's. the sub is a sundown audio sa-10 in a custom built 1.095 cubic foot box tune 35hz. I never really try turning off loudness because when i do everything gets so quiet. now i did try turning up the subwoofer level but after gettings close to like 9 or so the sub started to sound like crap but never got much louder.
 

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the sub is not beating hard at all like it did before switch deck's. the sub is a sundown audio sa-10 in a custom built 1.095 cubic foot box tune 35hz. I never really try turning off loudness because when i do everything gets so quiet.
Did you reset your gains after you swapped it out? Maybe have a bass boost of some sort on the old deck?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
no i left the settings the same the only thing i did was set the crossover to full.the old deck was a eclipse cd5030 and it never had bass boost or anything like that.
 

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How have you used the time alignment?
 

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Yeah phase and time alignment can cause cancellation with the sub. And I remember Eclipse units having pretty strong outputs so the amp gains probably just need to be turned up a little. And the LOUD function should ONLY be used when the headunit is at LOW volume to help compensate for the non-linearity of our hearing over the volume range.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah phase and time alignment can cause cancellation with the sub. And I remember Eclipse units having pretty strong outputs so the amp gains probably just need to be turned up a little. And the LOUD function should ONLY be used when the headunit is at LOW volume to help compensate for the non-linearity of our hearing over the volume range.
when i turn off loudness everything becomes quiet any ideal as to why this happens ?. and another thing would you please explain to me what is phase you speak of sorry i'm a little new to all the sq stuff ?
 

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when i turn off loudness everything becomes quiet any ideal as to why this happens ?. and another thing would you please explain to me what is phase you speak of sorry i'm a little new to all the sq stuff ?
Because your headunit had different preput voltage, re set your gains and you shouldn't have a problem.

Phase is referring to the sound waves, if they are completely in phase they will blend together so to speak. But if they are out of phase 90 degrees they will cancel eachother because the waves aren't lining up with eachother. When a speaker makes noise it pushes the cone out, and then backwards, the sound that comes from when the speaker goes backwards is 90 degrees out of phase with the sound waves coming out of the front of the speaker.

So if you time align wrong, your speakers will cancel eachother out. Just try going into your time alignment and move the one speaker far apart in time alignment then the other. You'll hear it go really quiet.
 

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the prs80 has an excellent loudness feature, i say use it. the loud function
gradually phases out as the volume is turned up anyways. USE IT.

why the revulsion to use EQ ?
there are 32 bands of eq to use ! ( 16 left & 16 right ).
dont be afraid to use this very powerful feature.

my prs80 is set up with the loudness ON, and every single band of the eq is
used. the eq is such a powerful feature i dont understand why anyone wouldnt
take advantage of it.
just because you may be looking for the flattest sound does not mean the eq
should not be used.

also : have you gone into sub network three and tried reversing the phase of the sub ?
 

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Please be careful with your use of EQ. I can tell already with use of Loudness feature and source level +3 that you will be boosting lots of things. This can lead to clipping and ultimately blown speakers. Clipping is what you are hearing when the subs started to sound bad but not louder. When in doubt reduce frequencies with EQ if possible instead of boosting. Also look a little closer at your crossovers, having gaps is not always a bad thing but keep playing with them and phase first. Your current gap between mid and subs is in a region where a lot of "impact" of bass comes from. If you are having a phase cancelation here it will certainly cause what you are describing. It may be as simple as flipping the phase of the subwoofer 180 degrees. If not, try lowering the crossover frequency of the mid. If this leads to a sloppy sound but better bass, try a steeper crossover.

Best of luck there is a steep learning curve from this point on.
 

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Because your headunit had different preput voltage, re set your gains and you shouldn't have a problem.

Phase is referring to the sound waves, if they are completely in phase they will blend together so to speak. But if they are out of phase 90 degrees they will cancel eachother because the waves aren't lining up with eachother. When a speaker makes noise it pushes the cone out, and then backwards, the sound that comes from when the speaker goes backwards is 90 degrees out of phase with the sound waves coming out of the front of the speaker.

So if you time align wrong, your speakers will cancel eachother out. Just try going into your time alignment and move the one speaker far apart in time alignment then the other. You'll hear it go really quiet.
Just to clarify, 180 degrees is completely out of phase, not 90 degrees, but to be fair, anything other than perfectly in phase will have interference both constructive and destructive.
Going back to your crossover settings, this is what you have listed:

hpf - 4k 12db
mid hpf - 125 12db
mid lpf - 3.5k 12db
lpf - 80hz 24db

So your tweeters are high passed at 4khz? That's not a problem.
The mids is low passed at 3.5khz? Again, not a problem
The mids are high passed at 125hz? This is reasonably, but probably not ideal, if your doors are deadened and the install is solid, try lowering this to about 80hz and see how it works. Keep an eye on the woofers when you turn up the volume though, you don't want to push them too hard until you know if 80hz is a comfortable place for them.
You have your sub low passed at 80hz? This isn't bad either, but the gap between that and the mids could be part of the problem. Use the same point for both the lpf and hpf, and use the same slope (24db/octave is what I would start with). Now you need to make sure it's all level matched.

You need to reset your gains after swapping the head unit. With the gains set properly, you can fine tune the levels with the head unit, then TA the system. If this doesn't help we'll need more specifics regarding your setup, an RTA graph would be helpful to see what's actually going on.
 

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You got a 80prs and are keeping the loudness function on? That's incompletely missing the point of using the 80prs. I suggest you turn off loudness, play around with the eq!! The 16 band eq is there for a reason.
 

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You got a 80prs and are keeping the loudness function on? That's incompletely missing the point of using the 80prs. I suggest you turn off loudness, play around with the eq!! The 16 band eq is there for a reason.
The loudness feature is actually really cool, if used properly. The key to using it properly, however, is setting the gains in a way that allows the loudness function to be defeated at the desired SPL.

Loudness features are designed, not as a bandaid, but as a way to maintain consistent perceived frequency response, regardless of the SPL. Equal loudness curves show us how we perceive different frequencies, you'll see that when played at the same SPL some frequencies sound louder than others. The loudness feature boosts the low and high frequencies that we aren't sensitive to at low volumes, then gradually tapers the boost off as the volume is increased. This allows a perceived frequency response that remains nearly the same for the entire range of the volume knob.

Again, the key is to set the gains so that this happens at the right spot on the volume knob. If you do this, you have a nice, impactful sound at low volumes, and as you turn up the volume, the frequency response normalizes and the loudness feature is completely inactive.
 

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My wife's car has a p880 in a passive setup, my source is an old p800 and I'm currently running active of that since the bit10 crapped out. I have never used the loudness function.

What happens when you listen to a decent 2ch and turn down the volume? Well, obviously the amplitude reduces across the board, BUT The balance within and across lows / mids / highs is still perceptible. If a kick drum hits 50hz you will still hear and feel that a bit. This is thanks to the speaker design and relatively benign room acoustics. If FM curves were solely responsible for how we perceive sound then even in a room, if you turn the volume down, the sound should get thin and tinny, but it doesn't.

Now cut to the car. In most cars when you turn the volume down the sound gets thin and tinny, like you're only hearing a 3" speaker. This is because the balance within and between the low/mid/highs is out of kilter. Thanks to horrible room acoustics and an incorrect tune. Get the timing and response right at your ears and you won't need the loudness function. The p80 has enough dsp to get that balance in the ballpark.

Imho if one needs to use the loudness function to get better balance at lower volumes, then maybe we need to take a look at the original tune. If you engage the loudness with a decent tune, it's going to feel like the balance just got messed up. Way too bass heavy and bright.
 

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Imho if one needs to use the loudness function to get better balance at lower volumes, then maybe we need to take a look at the original tune. If you engage the loudness with a decent tune, it's going to feel like the balance just got messed up. Way too bass heavy and bright.
That's my experience too. It also never hurts to compensate for road and engine noise with a "driving tune" and then have a separate "reference" tune. My truck is so quiet that I don't even worry about a separate eq curve for driving.
 
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