[cmahood]

This is my current setup:

07 DodgeRam Quad cab
PPI 356 CS comps, cone in door, tweet in upper door, stock crossovers
Kicker 8" sub
Audiocontrol EQS
Alpine PDX 4.150

System sound very good. I enjoy listening to it, but it doesnt sound good at lower volumes. I suspect because the comps are low in the doors and off axis.

I am trying a new setup idea. Instead of using the comps, I have orderred some Infinity 3.5s for the dash, and want to put a midbass driver in the doors.

I am hoping that this raises the soundstage and improves low volume performance.

I need recommendations on a crossover that will let me add a midbass driver to the dash 2-ways. Also need some good 6.5 raw drivers.

If this setup doesnt work out, I will go back to the front stage PPI comps and use the crossover and put the midbass drivers in the rear doors.

 

[dragonrage]

I think you're taking a step backwards here. I don't think that throwing some piece of junk Infinity speaker in your dash is going to fix anything. To start things off, could you show us a picture of where your speakers are currently located (or at least describe it in detail)?

 

[cmahood]

dragon,

Here is a pic of my comp install locations. I think I am going to regret posting this because you teed off on me in a thread I started a few months ago requesting advice on dedicated DA converters. Thankfully some other forum members came to my rescue.

If you can keep the criticism down, I am interested in your opinion. It may just be a tuning issue, or limitation of the comps. It sounds very good, I'm just not getting the low volume performance I would like. They need to be turned up to moderate volume to hit the "sweet spot". Smaller drivers might give me better tone at lower volumes, or perhaps a better tune. I also have suspected the factory grill is causing some tone loss, but am not ready to pull the trigger on fabricating something better unless I know that is the issue.

 

[minbari]

have to agree with dragon on this one. putting 3.5" in the dash will add some interesting time alignment issues since the tweeters are in the doors. the way you have the comps installs should yield good results. if they are only working well in a "sweet spot" on the volume knob then you may have to try different comps.
what is the efficiency of those? are the tweeter and the woofer close in efficiency? does the tweeter have any padding on it? they have same power to each?

 

[cmahood]

minbari,

The PPI comps are not sensitive. I think they are 88 dB, 4Ohm. Using the PPI crossover. They are getting 150+ rms from the Alpine 4.150. The other two channels are bridged for the sub.

I like the tweets and would be interested in trying other drivers, but don't exactly know how to go about matching them. A couple years ago, someone described these as the "forum boner". They were being closed out at $200 and were rebadged ADS which was supposed to be a great value, but people werent enamored with the midbass production. The doors are heavily damped with dynamat and sealed as well as possible. Midbass is not my issue, but if I could get something tighter and faster for occasional metal, it might be an improvement. People were saying these comps were better than anything you could get for $500 or less. I'm not really interested in starting a wild goose chase at $500+ a pop.

Another approach I am leaning towards, is to get an MS-8 and try to use it to tune the comps with dash speakers (or just the comps.) My understanding is that it can resolve any TA issues and my hope is that it would be an improvement. It could be that it doesnt sound good at low volume because of missing freqs or junk.

The final approach is to get another crossover and put midbass drivers in rear door, for more thump overall. It might be that the reason it doesnt sound good at low volumes is that there is not enough low mids, but an MS8 would solve this if its the problem.

I don't know why you are helping an animal like me, but I appreciate it.

 

[minbari]

the reason I asked about efficiency is this; if the tweeter is say 90dB and the woofer is 88 db, then overall the tweeter will be louder. at low volume this may become more apparent with the woofer sounding drown out. if you can, lower the volume of the tweeter and see how you like that. that will raise the overall volume of the woofer letting it play a little louder and still matching up with the tweeter. BTW, I dont believe an MS8 will solve this by itself. this IS a tuning issue and an MS8 can provide the tools you need, but you still need to know how to use em

I still think that adding more complexity will make things worse not better.(adding the 3.5")

another thing you can try is flipping the phase on the tweeters. try just the passenger door first, then both of em. if it doesnt make it better (or makes it worse) then put em back

 

[trojan fan]

I think you're taking a step backwards here. I don't think that throwing some piece of junk Infinity speaker in your dash is going to fix anything. To start things off, could you show us a picture of where your speakers are currently located (or at least describe it in detail)?

What seems to be the problem with adding dash speakers to raise the sound stage...more changes might need to be made , but that's a start in the right direction...

Dude some of the stuff you post really confuses me and other members on this site :whip::z::bash:

This install might be of some help

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...d-2010-dodge-ram-regular-cab-sq-installl.html

 

[trojan fan]

dragon,

Here is a pic of my comp install locations. I think I am going to regret posting this because you teed off on me in a thread I started a few months ago requesting advice on dedicated DA converters. Thankfully some other forum members came to my rescue. .....If you can keep the criticism down,

One of dragon's many fans speaks out ....nice:laugh:

 

[trojan fan]

I am trying a new setup idea. Instead of using the comps, I have orderred some Infinity 3.5s for the dash, and want to put a midbass driver in the doors.

I am hoping that this raises the soundstage and improves low volume performance..

have to agree with dragon on this one. putting 3.5" in the dash will add some interesting time alignment issues since the tweeters are in the doors. the way you have the comps installs should yield good results. if they are only working well in a "sweet spot" on the volume knob then you may have to try different comps.
what is the efficiency of those? are the tweeter and the woofer close in efficiency? does the tweeter have any padding on it? they have same power to each?

Dude, read his post a little better, you are giving him wrong info, the comps are coming out when the dash speakers go in and he's looking for a better mid bass driver

 

[trojan fan]

the reason I asked about efficiency is this; if the tweeter is say 90dB and the woofer is 88 db, then overall the tweeter will be louder. at low volume this may become more apparent with the woofer sounding drown out. if you can, lower the volume of the tweeter and see how you like that. that will raise the overall volume of the woofer letting it play a little louder and still matching up with the tweeter. BTW, I dont believe an MS8 will solve this by itself. this IS a tuning issue and an MS8 can provide the tools you need, but you still need to know how to use em

I still think that adding more complexity will make things worse not better.(adding the 3.5")

another thing you can try is flipping the phase on the tweeters. try just the passenger door first, then both of em. if it doesnt make it better (or makes it worse) then put em back

How is a 3.5 in the dash and a 6.5 bass driver in the door complex

 

[cmahood]

the reason I asked about efficiency is this; if the tweeter is say 90dB and the woofer is 88 db, then overall the tweeter will be louder. at low volume this may become more apparent with the woofer sounding drown out. if you can, lower the volume of the tweeter and see how you like that. that will raise the overall volume of the woofer letting it play a little louder and still matching up with the tweeter. BTW, I dont believe an MS8 will solve this by itself. this IS a tuning issue and an MS8 can provide the tools you need, but you still need to know how to use em

I still think that adding more complexity will make things worse not better.(adding the 3.5")

another thing you can try is flipping the phase on the tweeters. try just the passenger door first, then both of em. if it doesnt make it better (or makes it worse) then put em back

OK, this puts things in perspective. If the low volume performance is because of a mismatch in sensitivity, then it would be fixed by a differnt set of comps or by tuning. I suppose there is no guarantee that the comps are well matched.

I spend alot of time making micro adjustments with the audiocontrol EQ, I suspect that something with more granularity is going to help, somehting like the MS-8.

So my plan is this: I have already ordered the dash speakers ($50 on sale). I will get an MS-8 and see what it can do with the comps alone and then try it adding the dash speakers.

If I get an incremental improvement with the MS-8, I'll keep it. If the low volume performance is still not great, I will investigate other comps.

 

[minbari]

How is a 3.5 in the dash and a 6.5 bass driver in the door complex

if you have something to add.............add it. but picking apart what everybody else says is not constructive. those are my opinions. if he doesnt like my opinions he doesnt have follow them.

it is my opinion that he has good comps and he can get them to sound good with a few tweaks. throwing more money and speakers at a problem is not always the way to solve it.

 

[minbari]

OK, this puts things in perspective. If the low volume performance is because of a mismatch in sensitivity, then it would be fixed by a differnt set of comps or by tuning. I suppose there is no guarantee that the comps are well matched.

I spend alot of time making micro adjustments with the audiocontrol EQ, I suspect that something with more granularity is going to help, somehting like the MS-8.

So my plan is this: I have already ordered the dash speakers ($50 on sale). I will get an MS-8 and see what it can do with the comps alone and then try it adding the dash speakers.

If I get an incremental improvement with the MS-8, I'll keep it. If the low volume performance is still not great, I will investigate other comps.

good luck. just remember to change one thing at a time. each change you will learn something about the system and how to correct it.

 

[cmahood]

What seems to be the problem with adding dash speakers to raise the sound stage...more changes might need to be made , but that's a start in the right direction...

Dude some of the stuff you post really confuses me and other members on this site :whip::z::bash:

This install might be of some help

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...d-2010-dodge-ram-regular-cab-sq-installl.html

Thanks, this is great! The front stage couldnt be simpler, but I suspect it needs TA. I might be able to do something similar with subs under the rear seats. That is an expensive rig.

I am an ASU alum too.

 

[trojan fan]

if you have something to add.............add it. but picking apart what everybody else says is not constructive. those are my opinions. if he doesnt like my opinions he doesnt have follow them.

it is my opinion that he has good comps and he can get them to sound good with a few tweaks. throwing more money and speakers at a problem is not always the way to solve it.

If you post wrong info I'm going to call you out on it and I would expect you to do the same....You misread the post plain and simple, but in your mind you did nothing wrong....I offered a link that he really liked a lot, you seemed to confuse him

PS...I like your avatar pic....who does your hair

 

[trojan fan]

Thanks, this is great! The front stage couldnt be simpler, but I suspect it needs TA. I might be able to do something similar with subs under the rear seats. That is an expensive rig.

I am an ASU alum too.

I thought you would like that setup, with the 3.5's running low enough TA should not be a problem

A few people on this site are always over thinking things

Sell your PPI's and pick up some new midbass drivers

I'm a USC Trojan fan...the ASU avatar is part of a bet I lost