DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

141 - 155 of 155 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
I have a question..... after the auto-ta, it showed a delay for my right sub to be 1.30, and the left sub delay at 1.32. Both subs are in one box. So, should I average the timing, and use 1.31 delay for both subs, or use the 2 different times?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
You have to ensure that NOTHING is linked anywhere in the system. Goto Main tune window, and check each and every channel and make sure no channels are linked to other channels including Subs. Then goto Main Time window, and make sure all speakers are not Time-Grouped in anyway. Click the X for each speaker.

You will not need to max out your volume after your do the above. I used about 60%percent volume and it worked after I unlinked everything. Make sure to take note of the delay numbers that show up in the auto-ta window after the measurement is finished, because it may not auto-fill the new delays to the Main Time window. But you can set them manually using your notes.
tks tjk, I will try and observe this tomorrow and post here.
If success, I will try to make a little video about... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
how did you got increase levels to the mic...???
I tried tune today and the level mic in ATM window (UMM6 in my case) was very low, always red, even the volume on the speakers very loud.
the volume in HU almost at the maximum.
I increased everything except the gain on the amplifiers. The volume from the laptop where I was running the sound to the analog inputs on the dsp, the mic volume, the levels in the DSP. The sound produced was really too loud for comfort, but then it was possible to get green readings. Barely
An interesting thing is that when switching to the built-in laptop mic, the level was pretty much back to what would be expected.
Didn't need anything near the volume needed for my UMIC at max sensitivity

Since I don't have any issues with levels in REW or Auto EQ in the DSP, I guess there must be something around this feature.

I do not have anything linked. I use a new, very clean profile for this specific purpose.

I have also seen the mentioned issue with not getting all values set. Seems to be the case when the readings hasn't worked (Caused by levels in my case)

I have also seen different result when measuring several times, so I would absolutely try a number of readings to verify the result.
The differences can be very small, but also quite signinficant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
I have a question..... after the auto-ta, it showed a delay for my right sub to be 1.30, and the left sub delay at 1.32. Both subs are in one box. So, should I average the timing, and use 1.31 delay for both subs, or use the 2 different times?
Yes, both 1.31. You can try less or more if you hear differences, but I'd keep them the same.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,675 Posts
I’m going to attempt giving this a try, though I too typically only use iPhone to USB HEC, or Fiio coax SPDIF directly to the Pro-2.

So I guess with this Honda OEM (shoo), I could get the sound files to my Fiio then aux into OEM with a mini jack. And I guess I’ll have to switch my midbass channels to LOW instead of more midrange drivers in the tune file.

Q1:
So there are two files in the folder.. Does it matter which you play?

Q2:
I expect you’d want to do any individual driver EQ first before this since we’re talking IIR filters, so EQ affects phase.

Q3/4:
How are you guys’ results with midbass coherence since we know midbass in cars have fun modality issues that drive us nuts even though they might be well timed? Also how about sub to midbass phase alignment for good coherence (fancy word for bass up-front)?

Q5:
Anyone try some IR or phase plots after running this to see if REW, Smaart or Systune validates the tool?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
I’m going to attempt giving this a try, though I too typically only use iPhone to USB HEC, or Fiio coax SPDIF directly to the Pro-2.

So I guess with this Honda OEM (shoo), I could get the sound files to my Fiio then aux into OEM with a mini jack. And I guess I’ll have to switch my midbass channels to LOW instead of more midrange drivers in the tune file.

Q1:
So there are two files in the folder.. Does it matter which you play?

Q2:
I expect you’d want to do any individual driver EQ first before this since we’re talking IIR filters, so EQ affects phase.

Q3/4:
How are you guys’ results with midbass coherence since we know midbass in cars have fun modality issues that drive us nuts even though they might be well timed? Also how about sub to midbass phase alignment for good coherence (fancy word for bass up-front)?

Q5:
Anyone try some IR or phase plots after running this to see if REW, Smaart or Systune validates the tool?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
1 use either, they are the same

2 yup... eq first and apply crossovers to get them acoustically correct, this influences phase and timing

3/4 seems good

5 Once I’ve got my front stage issues sorted I will be taking smaart shots with tape measure vs smaart manual vs helix but it could be a week or two
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
I am new at REW, but I think I cracked (at least some of) the code today with getting some measurements logged. First pic is a baseline, untouched with flat EQ. The second one is after Helix auto-EQ. I will say that getting a good auto-EQ takes some finesse (garbage in = garbage out). Drivers are GB10, GB25, GB60 and a GB10D2 powered by a Helix P Six and Pico 1.


274260




274261


So my GB25's are dominating the system. These things will just rip your head off and for some reason the GB60's are not hitting hard enough, so I've gotta take car of that, but the auto-EQ does flatten things out pretty well.

I also tried another auto-TA today. It did not work, again. It put it some delay, but only .12 ms at the most when my manual measurements are giving me 2.5+ ms on some of the drivers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
Yes, one look at your Auto-tune graph, and I could instantly tell your Mid-Range is way over driving the rest of your system. You can adjust your levels using the current tune. Generally speaking... you would want your Mid-Base drivers about 4 DB's above your Mid-Range. Then have your Mid-Range about 3DB's above your Tweets...

For just a quick fix...... in the Helix software, increase both Mid-Base drivers about 9 DB's, then lower both MId-Range's about 2db's, and lower your tweets about 3db's... then after doing that see if it sounds a little better...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Yeah, looks like your mids are definitely too "in your face" - and it also looks like your mids and midbass are overlapping quite a bit after the auto-EQ? Something doesn't look right there - maybe the wrong freq range was used when using auto-EQ?

I know your're just starting with REW, but if you could get the dB scale on the left-hand side in 5dB increments, that would be helpful too (it's kind of the "standard" when displaying REQ response graphs) - gives a little more detail.

Glad you are learning REW - it'll come in very handy when trying to "see" what is going on with your system. I was resistant with it at first, but it's an awesome tool once you learn it - especially if you ever decide to try EQ'ing the system outside of the Helix auto-EQ.

I'm just glad we have another person posting some graphs! :) So many people are hesitant to post their response graphs for some reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
At the time you hit the Shift+T, a Quick Start Auto-Time guide window shows up infront of the auto-time window. Look at number 5. It shows that a the Green slider window should show up when you have the correct volume set. If that slider does not move into green when setting the auto-ta... and it is just a square orange box (like I had on my PC) the auto-ta probably will not work...... I had re-install Windows 10 Operating system on my Laptop for that green indicator light to work... Then the auto-ta worked, and auto-filled the times correctly in the Main Time window.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frequentflyer

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
One other thing... I'm just guessing, but it looks like your Mid-Base speakers (in the Helix software) have a LowPass Crossover around 380hz. Looks like your Mid-Range HighPass crossover is set in the Helix around 250Hz. Try changing your Mid-Range HP to around 380hz, and change the LP in the Mid-Range to around 3.2k.....keep the other speakers the same..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frequentflyer

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
Basically you want your speaker curves to look something like this...... (with the -6db at the bottom of crossovers betwen the fronts, mid-Range, Mid-Base, Subs)
274267
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frequentflyer

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
Regarding auto-TA, I do get a green slider. I am using the UMIK-1 and I thought I read that it may have issues with doing auto-TA. Not sure how true that is. What mic are you using? I will probabyl stick with my manual measurements.

For auto-EQ, I seemed to get better results doing the left side, right side, sub and whole system. Not sure why that is, but again, it really depends on how you set it up.

Regarding crossovers, that's where things get weird. My baseline crossover settings are: Tweeters 4000>, Mid-ranges = 300 - 4000, Mid-bass 80 - 300 and the sub 65 and below. It just seems like auto-EQ is messing with the crossover settings in the background. If you notice, it is boosting outside the crossover range for the individual drivers. Maybe I should only set the auto-EQ range to the exact crossover settings.

274268




274269



274270


274271



REW charts in 5db scale 🙂. Next time I may use 1/6 octave. I used 1/12th for these.

274262


274263
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
I use the Dayton UMM6 USB microphone. I don't use the Helix Auto-Tune. It looks like its doing a fairly decent job with your Mid-Range and Tweets, but for some reason it is EQ'ing the life out of your Mid-Base. Sorry but I can't help you much with the Helix Auto-EQ. but, you could try and "underlap" your Crossovers...keep your LP on MB at 300, but move your HP on MR to 450, and 2.5k on the LP......keep the everything else the same....

and one more thing... Auto-EQ is Max boosting 9 of 18 bands on the MR...... get the ear plugs out ..........move the Offset up a little when Auto-eq'ing...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frequentflyer

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
... I think you would have to move the Offset down, not up to reduce all the boosting.... sorry 'bout that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frequentflyer
141 - 155 of 155 Posts
Top