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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I'll make this short and sweet. I'm running the setup below and just put in the cx62's a few days ago. Haven't had but a few hours of listening time with them but they seem fine so far. I found a post on here saying the natural roll-off of these is around 1600hz. Now does that mean these shouldn't be played too much above this as they would strain or need more power to play into the upper midrange?? I understand they "will" play this but I'm a little unclear on the meaning of natural roll-off and if I need to take it into consideration.

Current X-over Points and Slopes:

xs28's: HP @ 3250hz/24db
cx62's: BP from 75hz-3250hz/24db
12w6's: LP @ 75hz/24db (SS @ 20hz/24db)

For the small amount of listening time I've had, I feel like the midbass is nice and snappy. Not a ton of it like the RK6's, but it's more refined and tonally nice. RK6's could beat on the door but it was muddy and just sounded extremely hollow in the midrange. Right now I feel like my setup isn't as "natural" sounding as I'd like it. I don't know what I can do to fix this. I've done the TA on the processor also to where my ears think it sounds centered. I still feel like the midrange or upper midbass (don't know which one would do this) sounds slightly hollow. Almost like it's straining a bit. Again, I'm not sure if this is b/c I need to play the mids a little lower than 3,250hz or what. When I mute the mids and only only the tweeters to play, I don't feel like their volume is anywhere near that of the mids...so I'm assuming that could be a problem also. I also need to do loudness adjustments from L to R side for each speaker, but again...is that needed to fix this somewhat un-natural, somewhat hollow, strained and separated stage.

Also, does anyone have any first hand experience with this tweeter and/or mid?? I'm not sure if I'm giving them too much power, not enough, driving the tweeter to low, etc. Gains on the 100.4 are all the way down for channels 1/2 (tweeters) and about halfway for 3/4 mids. The dBR adjustment within the 3sixty.2, I have the tweeters at -17dBR and the mids at -19dBR


(I'm out tuning right now so any advice will be tried promptly lol)
 

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Roll-off is similar to having a crossover on the speaker. Look through these and see if you find any good reads https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Disconnect the tweeters, grab a test tones CD. Set a volume then play tones from 1600Hz and up to hear about where the natural roll off is for the mid-woofer.

Now you should know about where the roll-off is and determine where you set the xover points. So if it is too low for your tweeter then be careful not to damage it.

I've never used the 360 so no help there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Roll-off is similar to having a crossover on the speaker. Look through these and see if you find any good reads https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Disconnect the tweeters, grab a test tones CD. Set a volume then play tones from 1600Hz and up to hear about where the natural roll off is for the mid-woofer.

Now you should know about where the roll-off is and determine where you set the xover points. So if it is too low for your tweeter then be careful not to damage it.

I've never used the 360 so no help there.
Thanks for the info! I'll check it out

I can just mute the tweeters from the 360. I wish I could find out how low these tweeters can play w/o popping them. I can use either 12 or 24db slopes also. I see some people either playing mids super high (mostly in 3-ways but some are in 2-ways) or taking the tweeter lower around 2.5kHz so the mid doesn't beam, etc. For such a good mid and tweeter, it's weird there's not as much talk on here about them as far as graphs, best x-over's, etc etc.
 

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The hollow, stretched sound you describe could be due to several reasons. Think of your sound as having five ranges. Sub bass / mid bass / mid range / upper mids and highs. These have to be balanced relative to each other for your overall sound to have good balance and impact. Another reason could be improper balance for L/R response. There are others as well but this is a good place to start. Yet another issue could be how you've set the xover range between the drivers, specially your mid to tweet transition.

It would help if you could post screen shots of your eq settings on the 360. I can't set the eq for you but I can suggest areas you could look at, if something seems out of whack. Also pics or a description of where the drivers are mounted.

The xover points look fine for now.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As of now all the EQ is completely flat. I don't know too much about EQ (trying to read up for the past few weeks) so I didn't want to mess anything up. It's good to play with and listen to what changes, but it takes FOREVER.
 

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I wish good sound was plug and play in a car. But it isn't. The results will be well worth the effort though :).
 

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I would try significantly lower on the tweeter highpass. 2.2khz to 2.5khz. Be easy on the volume at first until you figure out how low people run that set. I know I have different speakers but when I ran mine as a 2-way it was suggested to use 2.2khz due to the TL's stock locations. You're not going to hurt the tweeters at reasonable volume.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I wish good sound was plug and play in a car. But it isn't. The results will be well worth the effort though :).
When level matching both sides, I assume it's best to use an SPL meter to get them all correct...but I don't have one. Is it okay to just level match with your ears the best you can. Also...what would be the best steps to do that?

Download 1/3octave tones and level match each tone? Just play a familiar song or a few tones throughout (50hz, 1Khz, etc) and level match? Should I level match first and then do TA?

I would try significantly lower on the tweeter highpass. 2.2khz to 2.5khz. Be easy on the volume at first until you figure out how low people run that set. I know I have different speakers but when I ran mine as a 2-way it was suggested to use 2.2khz due to the TL's stock locations. You're not going to hurt the tweeters at reasonable volume.
Yeah I'd like to but I'm just scared running them that low lol. I wish I could get a few posts confirming that the 2.75 or 2.5kHz x-over is good on these. It seems the lower you go on a 2-way the more harsh they get too. Not sure if that's totally true, but it seems to be the trend that I see on here. I'm sure the components used play a big part in that also.

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Also, I wanted to ask how you know the midbass/midrange is straining or you're playing it too hard? Is the best way to set gains for those to play a certain frequency and play with the gain or the EQ?? I just want to make sure I'm getting the max potential and not over or under driving them.
 

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When level matching both sides, I assume it's best to use an SPL meter to get them all correct...but I don't have one. Is it okay to just level match with your ears the best you can. Also...what would be the best steps to do that?

Download 1/3octave tones and level match each tone? Just play a familiar song or a few tones throughout (50hz, 1Khz, etc) and level match? Should I level match first and then do TA?
You can do it by ear, but it would much more accurate using an spl meter specially if you're starting out. You're basically trying to centre each frequency. If you draw a vertical line from your rear view mirror to your dash you're trying to get everything as close as you can to this line. You may not get everything bang on the line that's fine for a start. If you have a problem centering the 60-400hz range with the eq, try playing a bit with the delay between the drivers. This frequency range is the most sensitive to phase issues and a good check to lock in your TA.

Do this separately for the mids and tweets. Use 1/3 octave pink noise, that's more accurate than the test tones.

Do TA first then balance for L/R and then level match for tonality. Don't worry about getting it right the first time. See if this thread helps.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?125627-Bit-Ten-Install-and-Tuning

Ask as many questions as you want :)

Also, I wanted to ask how you know the midbass/midrange is straining or you're playing it too hard? Is the best way to set gains for those to play a certain frequency and play with the gain or the EQ?? I just want to make sure I'm getting the max potential and not over or under driving them.
If you've set your gains at the amp/360 properly and you're not cranking your volume way above where you set the gains, you should be ok.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You can do it by ear, but it would much more accurate using an spl meter specially if you're starting out. You're basically trying to centre each frequency. If you draw a vertical line from your rear view mirror to your dash you're trying to get everything as close as you can to this line. You may not get everything bang on the line that's fine for a start. If you have a problem centering the 60-400hz range with the eq, try playing a bit with the delay between the drivers. This frequency range is the most sensitive to phase issues and a good check to lock in your TA.

Do this separately for the mids and tweets. Use 1/3 octave pink noise, that's more accurate than the test tones.

Do TA first then balance for L/R and then level match for tonality. Don't worry about getting it right the first time. See if this thread helps.

Bit Ten Install and Tuning

Ask as many questions as you want :)



If you've set your gains at the amp/360 properly and you're not cranking your volume way above where you set the gains, you should be ok.

Thanks!

Going to head out to the car now. Hope I get some good progress today

I wonder just how accurate the RTA app for Iphone4 is?? It's got the 1/3 octave too. I've also got the JL app with the SPL meter
 

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Good Luck. Let us know how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
New Settings:

Tweeter: HP @ 3.0kHz
Mids: BP @ 75- 3.0kHz
Subs: LP @ 75hz

I level matched both sides using JL's SPL meter (Iphone4 app) and my ears. Tweeters and mids were level matched independently. Dialed in the TA the best I could using the 60-400hz test tones until I get some pink noise tracks. Holy hell batman!! It sounds leaps and bounds above what I've ever experienced. The sub isn't localized at all but all the bass is still there. You can feel the kick drum, etc in your chest and vocals are literally sitting in the middle of the dash. Still have good width though. I've hated car audio for the last month with all my problems, but when you finally made a leap forward....sooo nice. I'll post up screens shortly (likely tomorrow) as I've got my last final of the semester tomorrow so I need to study lol. Damn you Invertebrate Paleontology!
 

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I've got my last final of the semester tomorrow so I need to study lol. Damn you Invertebrate Paleontology!
Can't help you with that :D. GL with the exam.
 
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