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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2008 Infiiniti M35.
Current Install
JL ZR 6.5 in the front and in the rear JL C3's. Powered by JL HD 600/4. For the subs I have two JL 12W7 in a custom ported box powered by one JL HD 1200/1. Using Audio Control LC8i for the line converter. My Clarion EQS746broke about a week ago and found out about the Audison Bit One.1.

New Install
Getting rid of all the spearkers and going to install the Audison Voce AV K6 for the front stage and forget about rear fill. Also install the Audison Voce AV 3.0 in the A pillars. I was also told by the shop I would need another 4 channel amp which I am still not sure why (cant remeber) but I am thinking about getting another HD 600/4. I do remeber he said he is going to bridge the HD 600/4 and I guess thats why I need another amp. Install the Audison Bit One. Also getting rid of the subwoofer box and get a bandpass done. Thanks guys for taking the time to read this post and if there is any advice or criticism you can offer I would greatly appreciate it thank you.

FYI I also have a JL HD 750/1 and two Jl 12W3 v-2 in a custom box just sitting around long story... I am not sure what to do with it. I tried selling but no one seem intrested. Is there any way I can install the 750 with the 1200?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am not exactly sure but if I remember correctly he will go full active. Is there a difference if he does or doesn't go full active?
 

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If your installer sets up your front stage fully active it explains the need for another amplifier (your existing 600/4 bridged to the 6.5" woofers and another 600/4 with two channels for the mid range speakers and the other two for the tweeters). It should be much easier to integrate everything running fully active and with the bit.one there will be many options for tuning. If that is what's planned it sounds like it should be a great front stage (not to say it wouldn't be otherwise but that would be a great utilization of all the equipment).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If your installer sets up your front stage fully active it explains the need for another amplifier (your existing 600/4 bridged to the 6.5" woofers and another 600/4 with two channels for the mid range speakers and the other two for the tweeters). It should be much easier to integrate everything running fully active and with the bit.one there will be many options for tuning. If that is what's planned it sounds like it should be a great front stage (not to say it wouldn't be otherwise but that would be a great utilization of all the equipment).
:surprised:
Thank you very much El_bob I really appreciate that you took your time to read and respond to my post. I feel very relieved that I am now heading in the right direction. I wasn't sure because of the earlier system which took away time, money, and really wasn't satisified. I am referring to the JL 12W3, the extra HD amp, Zr's, and C3's that I am now stuck with. Once again thanks and let's keep jamming!:D
 

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1. Why are you replacing the ZR and C3?
2. Why are you spending a ton of money when you do not need to?
3. Why are you doing a bandbass box?

Why are you not using the ZR and just adding the JL C5-400 to build a 3 way front stage.

This is what I would be doing. Puchase C5-400 and using all other current speakers. Building a 3-way front stage, add 1 HD600/4 and Bitone or 3sixty3.

A lot less money accomplish the samething you are wanting to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
1. Why are you replacing the ZR and C3?
2. Why are you spending a ton of money when you do not need to?
3. Why are you doing a bandbass box?

Why are you not using the ZR and just adding the JL C5-400 to build a 3 way front stage.

This is what I would be doing. Puchase C5-400 and using all other current speakers. Building a 3-way front stage, add 1 HD600/4 and Bitone or 3sixty3.

A lot less money accomplish the samething you are wanting to do.
Hey Genxx thanks for the reply.
1. I am replacing them because from I what I've been told the Voce are just better SQ speakers and I got the Voce's for a steal at $300 brand new.
2. Good point I have spent a lot but I think Voce's would take it to another level.
3. To get more bass and the box is really really heavy and I think it would look awesome.
 

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Well if we are going off of that criteria.

How many SQ Comp cars are running Audison Voce and winning?

Well let me be another person telling you something the Voce will not take it to another level by themselves.

Your worried about getting more bass and a bandpass will do that but there will be trade a off when going to a bandpass set-up.
 

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Well if we are going off of that criteria.

How many SQ Comp cars are running Audison Voce and winning?

Well let me be another person telling you something the Voce will not take it to another level by themselves.

Your worried about getting more bass and a bandpass will do that but there will be trade a off when going to a bandpass set-up.
I agree with you 100%,
There is so much more tuning involved, and that being said, with the processor that you are currently going, you will have the ability to do so.

Just because you buying Audison speakers, that doesn't mean your sound will improve, 99% of the time is how you tune your car, and how your gear gets installed.

Tuning and install is they key point, any SQ shop will tell you that and everyone here will tell you the same thing.

My car is based on Morel system, yes it was expensive, since I know more about car audio than I did back then, I'm sure I could achieve the same quality sound with lower end speakers and setup.
Just because you pay more, that doesn't mean it will sound better :)
 

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Well if we are going off of that criteria.

How many SQ Comp cars are running Audison Voce and winning?

Well let me be another person telling you something the Voce will not take it to another level by themselves.

Your worried about getting more bass and a bandpass will do that but there will be trade a off when going to a bandpass set-up.
I don't think that winning competitions should be a measure of how good or bad a set of drivers can be

Regards,
SS
 

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I don't think that winning competitions should be a measure of how good or bad a set of drivers can be

Regards,
SS

Not **** really. Would have never of guessed that. I was being sarcastic, same as like right now.

Read below the entire thing then tell me if the problem with all this is really debating whether we should actually be debating winning competitions or being honest with the OP.

So we will chalk my comp. statemnet up to the same statement about "I am replacing them because from I what I've been told the Voce are just better SQ speakers."

Since no one seems to be able to get what I am saying, I just made it more blunt for everyone.

I got an idea how about he buys Scanspeak drivers at least they have actually been proven many times over to be one of the best drivers. Based on subjective and klippel testing. You can even make them sound like **** if you have no clue what you are doing install and tuning wise.

Then instead of continuing to spend money just got straight up the driver chain. Take what the JL drivers cost plus what is being spent on the Voce and you could by a Scan set-up.

People really need to start doing some reading around here, going to G2G or shows and listening to different set-ups. The list continues to grow with people just spending money.

Some questions people should consider like the OP.

It is obvious to me he has no clue what he is getting into with this statement---"I am not exactly sure but if I remember correctly he will go full active. Is there a difference if he does or doesn't go full active?"

1. Who is the shop doing the install and have they got a clue?
2. Why is someone discounting the **** out of x brand?
3. Does the shop actually know how to tune an active set-up?
4. Do you the one buying an active set-up even read anything about 3-way front stages, tuning, active set-ups and understand install basics so you can ensure the shop is headed in the right direction?

3-way front stage and Bandpass box to get a ton more output do not even belong in the same thread if you are concerned with building a great set-up.

I am done sugar coating stuff around here. People need to be honest with other people. If what people are proposing is off base they need to know. People all worried about other peoples feelings.

What I am worried about is people spending money when there is no need.

1. Understanding what their expectations are
2. How you actually achieve them
3. Getting them to understand that the first place to start before you jump into 3-way, DSP ect. is to spend more than 60 days on a forum and think they got it.
 

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Not **** really. Would have never of guessed that. I was being sarcastic, same as like right now.

Read below the entire thing then tell me if the problem with all this is really debating whether we should actually be debating winning competitions or being honest with the OP.

So we will chalk my comp. statemnet up to the same statement about "I am replacing them because from I what I've been told the Voce are just better SQ speakers."

Since no one seems to be able to get what I am saying, I just made it more blunt for everyone.

I got an idea how about he buys Scanspeak drivers at least they have actually been proven many times over to be one of the best drivers. Based on subjective and klippel testing. You can even make them sound like **** if you have no clue what you are doing install and tuning wise.

Then instead of continuing to spend money just got straight up the driver chain. Take what the JL drivers cost plus what is being spent on the Voce and you could by a Scan set-up.

People really need to start doing some reading around here, going to G2G or shows and listening to different set-ups. The list continues to grow with people just spending money.

Some questions people should consider like the OP.

It is obvious to me he has no clue what he is getting into with this statement---"I am not exactly sure but if I remember correctly he will go full active. Is there a difference if he does or doesn't go full active?"

1. Who is the shop doing the install and have they got a clue?
2. Why is someone discounting the **** out of x brand?
3. Does the shop actually know how to tune an active set-up?
4. Do you the one buying an active set-up even read anything about 3-way front stages, tuning, active set-ups and understand install basics so you can ensure the shop is headed in the right direction?

3-way front stage and Bandpass box to get a ton more output do not even belong in the same thread if you are concerned with building a great set-up.

I am done sugar coating stuff around here. People need to be honest with other people. If what people are proposing is off base they need to know. People all worried about other peoples feelings.

What I am worried about is people spending money when there is no need.

1. Understanding what their expectations are
2. How you actually achieve them
3. Getting them to understand that the first place to start before you jump into 3-way, DSP ect. is to spend more than 60 days on a forum and think they got it.
Well said!:thumbsup:
 

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You are going to have a tough time beating the JL ZR mid as it is one of the finest out there based on my experience. The ZR tweeter is a matter of taste because of it's crispness, but it can be tamed to a great degree as well. Same goes for the W7's as I don't think it gets much better than them. My suggestion would be to try the Bit One in your existing set up before going all out replacing everything.
 

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14 months after my plunge back into car audio and spending too much cash (but it was fun) and replacing too much stuff (not fun) I would love to do two things:

1) Listen to my original system again to see how compares.

2) Add just a processor, couple amps and nice sub to the stock HU and speakers and apply my learned tuning skills to see how that would sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks Gen for the great advice. You caught me off gaurd earlier this morning and I honestly couldn't remeber why I bought the Voce's except for the shop said there great speakers and would sound better than the Zr's. This forum has been awesome and I've learned alot from reading on this forum and other websites about car audio in general. Clearly I have no clue about car audio and you have helped me put some things into perspective. In regards to the bandpass I am assuming it would hurt my front stage so I guess I am going to stick with the box but is there any way I can add the 750 with the 1200? I am also going to go listen to the Voce's (I am such a noob) even though I already bought them but if I don't like it try to sell them or return them. The Zr's might be just as good if not better if I get them rewired and add the DSP. Thanks man
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks audioBob for the advice and I am going to install the DSP and get rid of the rear stage and bi amp the ZR's and it should sound kick ass!
 

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Thanks Gen for the great advice. You caught me off gaurd earlier this morning and I honestly couldn't remeber why I bought the Voce's except for the shop said there great speakers and would sound better than the Zr's. This forum has been awesome and I've learned alot from reading on this forum and other websites about car audio in general. Clearly I have no clue about car audio and you have helped me put some things into perspective.
Sorry to be so blunt but honesty is the best way to go. If not people end up buying all kinds of stuff get it installed then they come back complaining it does not sound good. Then we get into the how do I fix what I got questions to try to hope to get to where their system they just spent a ton of money on even comes close to meeting their expectations.


In regards to the bandpass I am assuming it would hurt my front stage so I guess I am going to stick with the box but is there any way I can add the 750 with the 1200?
On the Bandpass enclosure very broad explanation-A bandpass is basically a combination of sealed and ported enclosures. They basically only produce a narrow range of frequencies. This makes them very efficient in that range but not very good in other frequency ranges. You should only use a bandpass enclosure if it is built specifically for your subs. Bandpass enclosures take a lot of calculating and setup to get right. Not all subwoofers work well in bandpass enclosure either. If you use the wrong enclosure you will have a horrible sound and you could possibly damage your subs.

If the shop is not extremely knowledgeable on how to design and build a custom bandpass box, it is going to sound like ****.

These are some decent tutorials to read I recommend reading them-
JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Enclosure-Type Performance Comparision
JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Sealed Enclosure Characteristics
JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Ported Enclosure Characteristics
JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Bandpass Enclosure Characteristics
JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Isobaric Enclosure Characteristics
JL Audio » header » Support » Tutorials » Tutuorial: Isobaric Enclosure Types

2 12w7 should already be loud as hell, if not I recommend you check your current box design you are using. 2 12w7 ported should damn loud.

You can put a 750 and 1200 in there. Only way to do it is a 750 on one sub and a 1200 on the other, I would never recommend this. If you want to add another amp either do 2 x 1200 or 2 x 750. They are not strap-able together like some SPL oriented amps are, not designed for that.

I am also going to go listen to the Voce's (I am such a noob) even though I already bought them but if I don't like it try to sell them or return them. The Zr's might be just as good if not better if I get them rewired and add the DSP. Thanks man
You already bought them so I would say listen to them. With a proper install of everything you already have adding a DSP would take it to the next level. However if your install is not correct all the DSP becomes is a huge band aid to fix all your install problems.

Rear speakers or rear fill has its use. There are plenty of people running them and I am one of them. Generally rear fill is used to create a larger sounding environment or ambiance. This only works right if installed and set-up correctly which generally requires the use of a DSP of some sort.

Just remember not all car audio shops are created equal. Just because they sale what some call high end brands does not mean they posses the knowledge of building you a top sounding vehicle. Always check around look at their work ask them specific questions to test their knowledge. Make sure you have enough knowledge and can clearly described the specifics of what you want. find that one shop that meets your standards then spend the money to have a system done.

There are some great shops in Florida, Georgia and Alabama so you have some nice shops to pick from down around your area that know what they are doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you once again for answering my questions and being very thorough. I really really do appreaciate you taking your time out to help me and provide me with great information. I have some great reading to do and never at one point was I ever offended with your honesty and bluntness. With this new found information and confidence at hand; I am going to really evaluate some more shops around Orlando and find one with a high rep, answer my questions to my satisfaction, and be able to get the job done. I think the original shop persuaded me to Audison because I didn't purchase the Zr's through them and they are pushing the Audison products because it's hard to get online (his words paraphrasing) and they make money off that line. Thank you once again and I am going to review the bandpass (most likely will save the money and skip it), add the DSP researching over Audison vs 3sixty.3, bi-amp the Zr's, review the need for rear fill, add mid ranges speakers, and /HD 600/4. Thanks for all the help and I really do meant it!
 
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