[sl33py]

Hello - new to DIYMA. I have a project truck that i am working on. It's a 84 Landcruiser FJ60 - not anything fancy (yet), and constantly in process of one project or another... While i am trying to quiet it down so i can hear myself think (or actually talk with the person next to me) i thought it would be nice to upgrade the stereo. I'm currently in mid Damplifier install, so good time to re-wire and re-route for a new stereo and speakers.

So, i know very little about car audio (about to be painfully obvious), and was hoping to get some recommendations on speakers.

I'd like to run some 6.5" components (passive) - off of a yet to be determined 4ch amp for the front doors. Thinking some 5.25 or 6.5 coax for rear doors (off same 4ch amp).

I'm trying to find good sounding speakers (main focus on front speakers), that are respected as good bang for the buck. I am looking to spend 150-300 for the fronts - and 100-200 for rear. I hope that helps you steer me towards a good set for both.

The door speakers are my main focus asking for your help. I'm planning so don't have anything yet (except crap stock'ish speakers and a decent Pioneer HU).

I like all kinds of music Rock, R&B, some pop, and mellow surf music (jack johnson, xavier rudd, etc). I'm not looking to enter any competitions, or rattle windows as i drive by. I have aggresive (loud) offroad tires, so the truck is loud going down the road and I want to be able to hear the music. (which is why i'm using DP and LLP). HOpefully it will quiet down significantly, but having a nice setup to listen to won't hurt!

After the door speakers are in and done, i'd like to look at getting a bit of bump... I'd like to get 1 or 2 10" slim subs in the back quarter panels in the cargo area. (here comes the really noob q's) SO... i'm trying to figure out how to power those. One 2ch amp for both, or one for each? I have found a couple low profile 10's - Pioneer being one (TS-SW1001S2/4), and mac audio being another (can't even find a dealer - prolly $$ and dreaming).

anyway - i'm all over the map and i know this will be tough to steer me. I appreciate any suggestions as i try and figure this out.

Thanks!!

rob

 

[SkipNJ]

Most will tell you to ignore the back speakers, spend your money on the fronts, and do a good job sealing and deadening the front doors. What Pioneer headunit do you have? If your headunit has time alignment and electronic crossover built in, you can use that 4channel amp to run the front active, for the same price or less than what you are talking about spending. Otherwise there are a ton of good passive component systems in your price range and it will really come down to what you like. You can use a mono subwoofer amp to power 2 subs, I would recommend that over 2ch amps. You are going to have to custom build some kind of enclosure or very solid mounting surface to put the subs in the back quarter panels.

 

[sl33py]

Thanks SkipNJ!

I've been looking at like the Pioneer TS-C720PRS 6 3/4's! Trying to read reviews and self-help (a LOT of options). I hadn't thought about powering the tweets of the HU. Kind of wondering if simpler might be better and running them passive?

Still leaning towards the 10" shallow Pioneer subs (x2). Kind of curious about the RMS ratings on both the components and sub - only 50w?! for the c720's? 300w for the 10"s? Seems kind of low. What happens if i use a 4ch that does 150w RMS x4 to those?

I'm a noob, but trying to learn quickly. Project is slow, so time to learn and save for goodies. Looking at some JL audio HD (600/4 and 750/1) amps - look nice! but way more power than the speakers i'm looking at so far can handle. Also looking at the Sony (typically would avoid Sony - bad Laptop experience) XM-4S and XM-1S amps. Thoughts?

I didn't realize you could run two subs off of one mono amp... See that's helpful! lol

rob

 

[Lanson]

The obligatory post someone must make for a newbie:

Basic Car Audio Electronics

Think of it as bootcamp for this hobby.

And...welcome to the insanity.

 

[sl33py]

thanks 4thmeal! I actually read through that a few days ago. Probably missed a lot, but definitely good info (i bookmarked to re-read as i go).

i'm going to try and look at it to see what happens when you put more RMS to a speaker than intended... Probably bad, but still not sure.

rob

 

[SkipNJ]

When running passive you should have the tweeter close to the woofer so the sound from both drivers arrives to your ears at the same time. I had a passive setup like that in a Jeep Cherokee but the position of my leg would screw with the sound because the tweeter was so low in the door. If you have time alignment and run active you can put the tweeters up higher and adjust everything so all the sound reaches you at the same time. This also brings the sound stage up and in front of you for better sound quality, like a live concert. I have neither run active nor passive with the tweeters up high, so I could be overstating the effects of time alignment.

If you are set on running passive, a 2-channel amp will save you money. Just run the rears off the head unit. I would avoid Sony amps just because you can do better. The JL amps are nice but way expensive, that HD600/4 is $540 even on ebay. Search ebay for Phoenix Gold X600.1, X100.4, or X200.2, they are big ugly amps but they are good for the money and reliable. I haven't come across any nice comments about the newer Phoenix Gold amps and would avoid them. The Pioneer Premier Class-D amps are also a good value and they would definitely make my list if I were going to buy two new amps right now. For a little more cash, a lot of people get a boner over the Alpine PDX amps and I would look at them also.

If you don't plan to eventually become a car audio nut or move toward an active system, I don't really see the point in spending $1000 for that JL amp setup or even getting a 4-ch amp. Since I dont plan to ever run active I chose to get components with a coaxial mounting option. I couldn't justify putting holes in my door panels to mount the tweeter 2" away from the woofer. Search "convertable" here and you will find a list of components with a coaxial mounting option.

Don't worry about overpowering speakers, as long as you set the amplifier gains correctly and use discretion with volume knob they will be fine. Search the web for information on how to wire up subwoofers to get an understanding of how running 2 subs off a mono amp works.

 

[brownmoses]

you have a nice truck! i got a set of fj axles for the next truck i build. you arent on the wrong track at all. the amount of money you have mentioned for front and rear speakers is plenty. i'd say to put a pair of coaxials in the back doors because it is a large truck and you might like the extra sound to fill the truck. just focus on good a good front stage and not so much in back. you can run this all on one 4 channel amp. as for subs, you mentioned 2 subs in back. theres no reason you cant run 2 subs on either a 2 channel amp bridged mono or a straight mono amp. just make sure the voice coil config. will be compatible with the amp. two amps can power the whole system no problem. as for running more power than advised, you can and most of us do. its called headroom. if the amp is capable of making more power than you need, it wont have to work as hard to produce enough to be loud with clean power to boot. hope this helped a little.

 

[Lanson]

When running passive you should have the tweeter close to the woofer so the sound from both drivers arrives to your ears at the same time. I had a passive setup like that in a Jeep Cherokee but the position of my leg would screw with the sound because the tweeter was so low in the door. If you have time alignment and run active you can put the tweeters up higher and adjust everything so all the sound reaches you at the same time. This also brings the sound stage up and in front of you for better sound quality, like a live concert. I have neither run active nor passive with the tweeters up high, so I could be overstating the effects of time alignment.

If you are set on running passive, a 2-channel amp will save you money. Just run the rears off the head unit. I would avoid Sony amps just because you can do better. The JL amps are nice but way expensive, that HD600/4 is $540 even on ebay. Search ebay for Phoenix Gold X600.1, X100.4, or X200.2, they are big ugly amps but they are good for the money and reliable. I haven't come across any nice comments about the newer Phoenix Gold amps and would avoid them. The Pioneer Premier Class-D amps are also a good value and they would definitely make my list if I were going to buy two new amps right now. For a little more cash, a lot of people get a boner over the Alpine PDX amps and I would look at them also.

If you don't plan to eventually become a car audio nut or move toward an active system, I don't really see the point in spending $1000 for that JL amp setup or even getting a 4-ch amp. Since I dont plan to ever run active I chose to get components with a coaxial mounting option. I couldn't justify putting holes in my door panels to mount the tweeter 2" away from the woofer. Search "convertable" here and you will find a list of components with a coaxial mounting option.

Don't worry about overpowering speakers, as long as you set the amplifier gains correctly and use discretion with volume knob they will be fine. Search the web for information on how to wire up subwoofers to get an understanding of how running 2 subs off a mono amp works.

My new install revolves around the PG RSd amps, so I'll let everyone know how they really are. They might be contenders but we'll find out soon enough.

The PRS720's are capable of a LOT more than 50W per channel. Trust that.

 

[sl33py]

Wow guys - that is really helpful!

I am thinking of swapping HU's when i do this setup. Maybe i'll start searching for one that will let me use it to run the front active after all.

I'm not ruling out that i'd like to tinker with this stuff down the road - just that initially i want something i can setup and be happy. I'm a bit more 'retentive' on some things - typically audio being one of them (GF hates my speakers - nice older set of athenas - "too big!"). They sound great so they stay - just not an option.

Anyway one concern i have is that i am a big guy, and like to lounge while i drive, so actually the rear door speakers are typically pretty helpful (and closer than the front door speakers).

IF i were to run same or similar door speakers in all 4, and get them balanced wouldn't it sound better than just the front two? I understand that good speakers up front are important, and when i actually take the time - i like to adjust F/R so that it's kind of enveloping with front emphasis... Totally doing that wrong or...? I know it's all subjective, but i've never heard anyone's system that is TRULY nice and how it should be setup either.

i really appreciate the skooling guys!

rob

 

[sl33py]

IF i were to run same or similar door speakers in all 4, and get them balanced wouldn't it sound better than just the front two? I understand that good speakers up front are important, and when i actually take the time - i like to adjust F/R so that it's kind of enveloping with front emphasis... Totally doing that wrong or...? I know it's all subjective, but i've never heard anyone's system that is TRULY nice and how it should be setup either.

So, (bump), anyone care to weigh in on this? Is it so obviously a bad idea i should know better, or...?

thx!!

rob

 

[Lanson]

Wow guys - that is really helpful!

I am thinking of swapping HU's when i do this setup. Maybe i'll start searching for one that will let me use it to run the front active after all.

I'm not ruling out that i'd like to tinker with this stuff down the road - just that initially i want something i can setup and be happy. I'm a bit more 'retentive' on some things - typically audio being one of them (GF hates my speakers - nice older set of athenas - "too big!"). They sound great so they stay - just not an option.

Anyway one concern i have is that i am a big guy, and like to lounge while i drive, so actually the rear door speakers are typically pretty helpful (and closer than the front door speakers).

IF i were to run same or similar door speakers in all 4, and get them balanced wouldn't it sound better than just the front two? I understand that good speakers up front are important, and when i actually take the time - i like to adjust F/R so that it's kind of enveloping with front emphasis... Totally doing that wrong or...? I know it's all subjective, but i've never heard anyone's system that is TRULY nice and how it should be setup either.

i really appreciate the skooling guys!

rob

You actually would be worse off with those rear speakers playing in front of you. What you are after in this game is a sound stage effect. A set of speakers playing to what would be an "image" of the music in front of you, usually best up high and outward on the dash or better. Rear speakers in your ear would destroy this, and ruin everything. A good system doesn't even need rear speakers at all. It is up to you if you want to use them, but I would suggest this:

Deaden your doors and the vehicle as much as you can.
Get a head unit that can run active, like a PRS800 or similar. There are lots of them.
Get the 720PRS speakers you were thinking of. Great drivers at a great price. If you install them correctly (deadening, sealing, and using a gasket between the door skin and the speaker), they will sound fantastic all by themselves.

Then get your subs going. You have lots of options, the Pio slims are fine but beware that they want lots of airspace to run right.