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Also, I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned it but ~7db nulls are childs play with eq. Did you say that making high q cuts around that null makes the null deeper with careful enough q usage that it’s definitely not acting on the null?
If you’re making the point that you can eq everything else down around the null then that’s all good… but… you can’t cure the null and if you drop the rest to match your null will still be there and have two lots of phase at your ears both at a higher level and you will get worse results in some cars than just leaving a deep narrow null as it is and levelling the rest to suit at the higher level than the null

the other solution is relocate midbass to somewhere without a null where we need to use the driver, and see what happens after than 👍🏼
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Open that subwoofers lowpass my guy!! Let’s see the response up to 500hz.

I really have come to highly value test enclosures man. There has to be a cheap way for you to get response down to 100hz in a 6”x6”x6” mdf cube. Move the subwoofer around with a very high crossover and test the footwell, by the doors, everywhere it fits.
Hahaha, okay, I'll open 'er up and test on my lunch break 😁

How are you factoring your Q? Some of those on your eq are the preset Q's. Have you tried calculating them with the math in the audiofrog tuning guide? Just throwing an idea out there, it may or may not work but definitely worth a try.
Somehow I miss everything that's on that guide, because I swear I've read it but I have no recollection of this.

This current tune is purely guesswork and watching the REW response. I used the autoEQ feature in REW, which looked nice on paper but didn't sound the best. My current tune sounds better, but not great.

I'll look through the guide again. My workplace is having some system issues so I have a little time to kill.
 

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2004 Rav4 (2)JL900/5 MiniDsp 8x12(Dirac) LPG26NA GS25 Epique180-44 (2)Um12
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If you’re making the point that you can eq everything else down around the null then that’s all good… but… you can’t cure the null and if you drop the rest to match your null will still be there and have two lots of phase at your ears both at a higher level and you will get worse results in some cars than just leaving a deep narrow null as it is and levelling the rest to suit at the higher level than the null

the other solution is relocate midbass to somewhere without a null where we need to use the driver, and see what happens after than 👍🏼
So test enclosure it is, try it in every possible midbasse location wouldn’t you say?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
If you’re making the point that you can eq everything else down around the null then that’s all good… but… you can’t cure the null and if you drop the rest to match your null will still be there and have two lots of phase at your ears both at a higher level and you will get worse results in some cars than just leaving a deep narrow null as it is and levelling the rest to suit at the higher level than the null

the other solution is relocate midbass to somewhere without a null where we need to use the driver, and see what happens after than 👍🏼
Ahhhhh, I see. It's not ideal, not what I want to do, but it was attempt, and I'll admit the attempt didn't pan out very well 😕.


So test enclosure it is, try it in every possible midbasse location wouldn’t you say?
I'll have to see where I can buy a cheap one, then. I have zero woodworking tools, so no way of building one myself at the moment.
 

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Ahhhhh, I see. It's not ideal, not what I want to do, but it was attempt, and I'll admit the attempt didn't pan out very well 😕.




I'll have to see where I can buy a cheap one, then. I have zero woodworking tools, so no way of building one myself at the moment.
If your subwoofer enclosure isn’t too big hopefully it’ll work in a pinch.
 

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Ahhhhh, I see. It's not ideal, not what I want to do, but it was attempt, and I'll admit the attempt didn't pan out very well 😕.




I'll have to see where I can buy a cheap one, then. I have zero woodworking tools, so no way of building one myself at the moment.
It wasn’t aimed at you buddy, we have to try things to see what happens… but there is always more than one way to skin a cat was my point, if you have an 8 db null try taking surrounding down to -4db so the null is then 4db deep and shallower, sometimes that sounds better than dropping everything down by 8db so the null ‘disappears’ as the null still has the speaker making energy at the nulls freq if that makes sense and sometimes results can be better, try it a few ways and one will work out for the best 👍🏼
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
If your subwoofer enclosure isn’t too big hopefully it’ll work in a pinch.
Actually, it's a truck box, so I could probably throw that in a few places 😁 I can put it in the passenger footwell and test like normal, though I'll have to sit in the passenger seat when I test the driver's side. Though I could just prop myself up cross-legged. Give my middle-aged knees a workout 🤣.

So just open up the sub crossover (I can only go to 240 Hz since the amp's built-in crossover kicks in there), test with the sub alone playing through 180 Hz, test again with the woofers + sub, test all drivers. Anything I'm missing?

It wasn’t aimed at you buddy, we have to try things to see what happens… but there is always more than one way to skin a cat was my point, if you have an 8 db null try taking surrounding down to -4db so the null is then 4db deep and shallower, sometimes that sounds better than dropping everything down by 8db so the null ‘disappears’ as the null still has the speaker making energy at the nulls freq if that makes sense and sometimes results can be better, try it a few ways and one will work out for the best 👍🏼
Oh I didn't take that personally. I'll take any advice at this point. I know I'm going to have to throw a little money at this, just want to make sure I'm not wasting any of it.

So far I figure I'll either be buying replacement drivers, additional drivers, enclosures, amp, or a combination thereof. Just annoying since I planned to get a much better sub box and second sub and was really looking forward to have decent sub-bass.
 
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Actually, it's a truck box, so I could probably throw that in a few places 😁 I can put it in the passenger footwell and test like normal, though I'll have to sit in the passenger seat when I test the driver's side. Though I could just prop myself up cross-legged. Give my middle-aged knees a workout 🤣.

So just open up the sub crossover (I can only go to 240 Hz since the amp's built-in crossover kicks in there), test with the sub alone playing through 180 Hz, test again with the woofers + sub, test all drivers. Anything I'm missing?



Oh I didn't take that personally. I'll take any advice at this point. I know I'm going to have to throw a little money at this, just want to make sure I'm not wasting any of it.

So far I figure I'll either be buying replacement drivers, additional drivers, enclosures, amp, or a combination thereof. Just annoying since I planned to get a much better sub box and second sub and was really looking forward to have decent sub-bass.
Test the sub alone everywhere it fits
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
It’ll hopefully give some idea what areas might be good for midbasses
I don't know, I'm scared to move it. I might like the bass too much and try to justify keeping the box in the seat next to me 😆
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
On the plus side, I was able to borrow a set of Rockford Fosgate R1's to run some tests on my lunch. I'll have measurements in a bit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Near field measurements:

Light Black Slope Screenshot Font


So, the only dip I'm seeing is a bit at 250, which I bet is part of my EQ'ing. I'm rather confused, I swear I've taken near-field measurements before and the dip was still there.

These are all isolated. Red is with the rockfords I borrowed, blue is NVX (the ones I own) inside the pod but not in the dash, orange is with the pod mounted, green is the right pod in the dash. The second blue is with polyfill (I took it out for the other tests) with negligible difference in output.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Light Black Slope Screenshot Font


This is the sub, both with crossover and without, with the sub moved directly behind my seat. I ran out of lunch time before I could move it around more, but I will on my next 15 minute break.
 

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You talking us all on a wild goose chase there Flint🤔

Next task is to have the mic at the listener position and test each speaker location one at a time wan enclosed driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I'm starting to feel that way myself 😕

Light Rectangle Font Screenshot Line


This was from last week.

Orange - all drivers from listener position
Light blue - all drivers, near-field to the left woofer
Purple - only left woofer, near-field
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
My results seem wonky and I'm just confused 😔.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Light Slope Screenshot Line Font
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The orange looks good to me. are you just not getting the output you want? are you out of power?
When the sub is in the cargo area I have a null. I thought it was just the mid woofers because I had taken near field measurements and they were bottomed out at 180. Now I'm taking near field and they're fine.

With the sub right behind me the null is gone. Fun thing, though: it might be related to the timing. I have to test it more to be sure, but with a few minutes of playing it seemed like the null returned when I moved the timing input by a few inches.

I'll take some measurements after my class tonight or tomorrow morning.
 
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