[lookin4Alighter]

Hey, Im new to DIYMA and to car audio in general.
Im planning to install a set-up in my 2005 Toyota Tacoma and need some help in the subwoofer dept.

I plan on installing:
-Alpine iDA-100 or iDA-305 Head Unit
-Image Dynamics CXS65CS 6.5" Component speakers(not sure if those are chemeleon)
or Diamond Audio HEX S600A
-Kicker ZX350.2 2ch.(for the fronts)
-Kicker ZX400.1 mono (for the subs)
BOTH AMPS ARE ALSO A MAYBE AND ALTERNATIVE ADVICE IS APPRECIATED
and
-2 Image Dynamics IDQ10V3
or
-2 CDT EF-100 10" sub

I would like to put a cap on spending at around $300-350 for the total of two subs.

I chose these subs, ID being my 1st choice, because of the versatility between SQ and ability to get down. They seem to be a good bang for the buck as far as value is concerned.

Am I even close with either of these choices?
Do either of the above subs qualify for a versatile subwoofer?

Sound Quality is mucho important to me, Im looking for good, clean sound.
However, I still want to be able to thump some bass once in a while so I would like somthing more, middle-of-the-road.

Also, if you could, judge my current choice of amp

Thanks ya'll, I appreciate all the help I can get, even though opinions are all spaghetti right
Thanks

 

[vidizzle]

idq are sum really nice woofers u could also look into the alpine type r or the oz audio matrix if u can get your hands on but those are really nice versitile subwoofers imho

 

[89grand]

I'd run the RE SE's myself, but subwoofers really aren't all that important really.

The RE's sound great and can take a beating if you ask them too. I really like those subs as an all around good performer.

 

[brownmoses]

the image dynamics are always a good choice. neither of those amps will have enough power though. you need 1000 rms at the subs according to their rating combined. as for the components, id have 150-200 rms on tap for those.

 

[npdang]

Application is very critical to choosing the right sub. How loud, and how low would be one of the first things to ask.

If SQ is your main focus, I'd say you'd almost be fine with whatever you chose to go with. Tuning and system integration are FAR more important in achieving good SQ than the sub itself.

 

[npdang]

Application is very critical to choosing the right sub. How loud, and how low would be one of the first things to ask.

If SQ is your main focus, I'd say you'd almost be fine with whatever you chose to go with. Tuning and system integration are FAR more important in achieving good SQ than the sub itself.

 

[vidizzle]

npdang is right proper box design is more important than the driver used
but imo better equipment makes it hell of alot easier tho

 

[vidizzle]

npdang is right proper box design is more important than the driver used
but imo better equipment makes it hell of alot easier tho

 

[Hispls]

The Aurasound 10 at Madisound Speaker Components | Assisting speaker builders for more than 25 years. is a steal at the price and has impressive reviews.

I've had good luck with Kicker amps myself, that's as good a pick as any, and if you're not a stickler for looks you can get refurbs on eBay for short money.

 

[SQfreak]

I can only chime in on items I've owned.

The Diamonds - (the metal tweeters especially) will make your ears bleed. They are very bright and highly detailed. Unless you like that 'euro' sound (think Bang & Olufsen with the 7k-20k htz at +10db)

IDQ - best damn subs I have ever owed. Decent SPL, great tonality, good resolve into high htz range, nice smooth roll off. Really a great sub. I think maybe I liked the beefy motor from the OEMS better but the new IDQ are still my fave sub ever.

 

[lookin4Alighter]

Thanks everyone, this will give hours upon hours of new research to go through

I was looking at ID-MAX and was wondering if anyone has had any luck with them. They look remarkable and their specs almost made me crap my pants.
They are a bit more out-of-pocket, but if Im going to do this, I might as well be satisfied on all fronts.

As far as enclosures are concerned, are port holes a good idea with ID subs or no?
What sub specs indicate port holes being of benefit?

Im drawing numerous plans of sub enclosures to fit my 05 Tacoma and will post them months down the road for feedback, but this is obviously a major break-point for even the best subs, is it not?

QUICK QUESTION
If the combined total RMS ratting of a pair of subs is say 1000w
Would this require 1000w RMS from the amp? Is there any way of having less RMS from the amp?
Is less amp-RMS just a waste of good sub?

 

[89grand]

Subwoofers require the amount of power it takes to get them as loud as you want.

In other words, if you had a system that consisted of just 5.25's in the door ran off a 50 watt amp, you wouldn't need any where near 1000 watts to blend the subs. Probably only 200 to 300 or so. If you have a really loud front stage, you'll want a lot of power on the subs.

It's like asking how much horsepower a car needs. There's no definite answer, it all depends on how fast you want to go.

 

[Hispls]

Thanks everyone, this will give hours upon hours of new research to go through

I was looking at ID-MAX and was wondering if anyone has had any luck with them. They look remarkable and their specs almost made me crap my pants.
They are a bit more out-of-pocket, but if Im going to do this, I might as well be satisfied on all fronts.

As far as enclosures are concerned, are port holes a good idea with ID subs or no?
What sub specs indicate port holes being of benefit?

Im drawing numerous plans of sub enclosures to fit my 05 Tacoma and will post them months down the road for feedback, but this is obviously a major break-point for even the best subs, is it not?

QUICK QUESTION
If the combined total RMS ratting of a pair of subs is say 1000w
Would this require 1000w RMS from the amp? Is there any way of having less RMS from the amp?
Is less amp-RMS just a waste of good sub?

Going with the car analogy, you don't want to run your car at 7,000RPM all the time. By the same token, you probably don't want to put the subs on the spot that they're running at their limits all the time. I find most speakers don't really sound that great when you start really pushing their limits anyway, so no worries about having less power on tap than their max ratings. On the flip side, you can always have more power on tap and just not use it. Either way you go, if you fail to use common sense and are abusive on your gear you can damage equipment.

 

[lookin4Alighter]

Thanks Everyone

Its amazing what you can learn in just a week, reading this stuff til 5 in the morning every night:computer:.
Im already laughing at some of the **** I posted.

Ive been lookin around at many other sub companies and I think that Im going to stick with Image Dynamics.
Im more into the total sound of my system, and SQ is my highest priority.
After speaking for nearly 3 hours with a fella at ID, whose wife called and Im assuming was asking him to come home from work because it was 8pm on a friday night.
He expressed that ID makes SQ subs, and that even with 1 sub, its still going to be loud, considering my truck application.

All I have to do now is decide between having 2 IDQ-10" subs (total RMS ratting = 100-1000 watts)
or
1 IDQ-12" sub (RMS rattign = 50-600 watts) or 1 IDMAX -10" sub (RMS ratting = 1000 watts)

Again, keep in mind this is going in the cab of a truck, not much distance between the sub and myself, thats why Im considering going with 1 sub.

AMP CHOICE QUESTION
Ive kicked the idea of wanting Kicker amps to the curb, lol... get it, because my gut-feeling and SQ desires have told me to do so.

Instead, Im liking Rockford Fosgate amps. In particular:
RF T600-2 (600x1 @ 4 Ohms Bridged)

Is this a good brand of amp for SQ?
If so, Is this a good line from RF?

The RMS output seems to be adequate for the 1 IDQ-12" sub
but....
Would this be enough RMS for either the 1 IDMAX-10" sub or the 2 IDQ-10" subs?

Woofersetc.com lists that this amp is 2-ohm stable in bridged mode, but Rockford Fosgate's website doesnt say this on they're specs, not sure if I trust Woofersetc.com

How does being 2 or 4 ohm make a difference?
Does bridging a sub from 4ohm to 2ohm make a difference in handling RMS or SQ?

thanks for any help

 

[89grand]

I'll tell you right now, I personally do not believe in "SQ" amplifiers. Second of all, even if they did exist, they'd be a waste of time on a subwoofer.

The only benefit to bridging an amp to 2 ohms, assuming it can handle it, is that the amp will usually put out more power. That's the only reason to run lower impedances. Again assuming the amp can handle the load, there really isn't any negative to doing it either. It's all about power.

As far as how much power you need. Who knows for sure, just buy as much power as you can afford and your vehicles electrical system can support.

To make a point, I ran a system for years following conventional wisdom, I ran 5.25 components in the front doors off a PPI A200 at 50 watts per channel and ran two JL Audio 10's off an A600.2 rated at 600 watts bridged at 4 ohms. I always felt I needed more power up front so one day I switched amps around and ran the components with the A600 at 150 watts per channel and the subwoofers with the A200 rated at only 200 watts bridged and it was the best thing I ever did. The system got much louder and the A200 had plenty of power for the subs to keep up. It pretty much to me proved that all but the most power hungry subs don't need a ton of power to keep up with the rest of the system.

The whole idea of "SQ" can get out of hand here sometimes and cause a noob like yourself to lose sleep over it it looking for that right gear. To me SQ means a system that is balanced in frequency and has good imaging and staging. It's all about the tuning and the install and much less about what gear you buy.

 

[Hispls]

ID sub will be good. Whether you need 1, 2, or a dozen is really personal preference. 1 is probably good for "normal" people.

The retail price on the RF amp is laughable. Even the 400$ woofersetc price is kind of crazy IMO.

First of all, you'll never notice "sq" in a subwoofer. Second, a class A/B amp might not be your first choice for sub amp. You're probably tight for space, so the fact that it'll be larger than a class D may be an issue and heat also becomes a problem with A/B amps particularly when you start dropping the impedence and in a pickup, it's not likely that you'll have it someplace with plenty of airflow. AND you'll need 4X as much current from your charging system vs. comparably rated class D amp.

The Cadence makes a 600W amp that people here seem to like and that's 100$. If you really want to throw 360+ on a 600W amp why not grab the Alpine PDX 600.1. It'll be smaller, more efficient, and at the end of the day do the same thing.

 

[94VG30DE]

I actually am running the Kicker ZX400.1 in my car right now with two Alpine subs wired in parallel at 2ohms. The birthsheet says 490 RMS if I remember correctly (I would have to look in the box again). It has MORE than enough power for those subs, and runs cool all day long. I'm actually looking to sell it soon and buy a 6-channel I've had my eye on, so if you are interested PM me. What side of the state you live on? If you are on the west side, we could probably arrange for an audition.

 

[brownmoses]

ask youself this: do you like to turn it up? you have already decided to go in a sq direction and one of the keys is amps. if an amp dosent have to work as hard to produce power it is typically cleaner. thats why i suggested supplying amps that match the rms ratings. if you like it loud and clear all the time, thats when it is time to have amps with headroom (more than needed power) just so they arent working at 100% duty and heating up/breaking up. it does make a difference in my experience. also if an amp isnt woking as hard, it tends to last longer in many cases provided you dont buy junk.

 

[lookin4Alighter]

ask youself this: do you like to turn it up? you have already decided to go in a sq direction and one of the keys is amps. if an amp dosent have to work as hard to produce power it is typically cleaner. thats why i suggested supplying amps that match the rms ratings. if you like it loud and clear all the time, thats when it is time to have amps with headroom (more than needed power) just so they arent working at 100% duty and heating up/breaking up. it does make a difference in my experience. also if an amp isnt woking as hard, it tends to last longer in many cases provided you dont buy junk.

Being loud is important to me, to a degree of course.
Im not the type of listener pulling up beside people trying to turn heads with my pompus Db level. Let me put my listening range in perspective.....

40% - Rock
30% - Alternative/New Pop
20% - Jazz/Folk
10% - Hip Hop/Electronic

I posted this thread in hopes to select a sub and amp that is focused on SQ BUT gives me the ability to be loud.

I could be way off, but logic tells me that the RMS ratting of an amp is just the MAX CONTINUOUS output ratting, meaning that subs DO NOT HAVE TO REACH THIS LEVEL OF CONTINUOUS POWER FOR THEM TO FUNCTION AT A "LOUD LEVEL".
Even at 100 RMS, Im fairly confident that the ability to get loud for my "10% - Hip Hop/Electronic" music will satisfy my volume needs.
Among other variables that should be held constant(HU, Enclosure, Front Speakers, etc.), the balancing in a system is where SQ is lost and overbearing bass is not neccesary

but.....

On the other hand, I have to agree that the less work for an amp = better/more efficient SQ
Most energy is lost through heat, which is a result of electronic componentry having to work harder than it should. Therefore, I beleive that the signal flow would be effected in a negative fashion.

Then again, this is a sub amp we are questioning, and the frequencies that reach the human ear are very low, so low that SQ is a laughable subject in its self.
Distortion of these low frequencies, however, is an important matter and I believe that having headroom power for the sub is most likely a benefit, but must be closely monitored.

Here's the QUESTION

IF ANY OR ALL OF THE ABOVE IS TRUE..... Please apply your answer to my stated preferences.

If I go with 600 RMSw, which of the following sub set-ups would you recomend?

a) 1 IDQ-10" (50-500 RMS)
b) 1 IDQ-12" (50-600 RMS)
c) 1 IDMAX-10" (1000 RMS)

Thanks

 

[Hispls]

Any would get you about the same place. Make sure you can fit whatever you pick into your application (both dimensions and box size).

I'd lean towards the Max since you could always add more power down the road if you feel you need more.