[St7_77]

whee. Post #1. Title says the generals. Honda Accord V6 2010 sedan, 7 speaker "premium" (more like "poopium") system. Haven't started swapping it out yet..

 

[ckirocz28]

whee. Post #1. Title says the generals. Honda Accord V6 2010 sedan, 7 speaker "premium" (more like "poopium") system. Haven't started swapping it out yet..

Welcome to DIYMA! Poke around a bit, there's a wealth of information here, and some very helpful professionals, too.

 

[St7_77]

Thanks! Btw, is it 100 posts or 250 to get to classifieds? I saw different things in different places on the site.

 

[ckirocz28]

Thanks! Btw, is it 100 posts or 250 to get to classifieds? I saw different things in different places on the site.

That I don't know. I did see someone mention 250 earlier today, though.

 

[jcesl2]

Thanks! Btw, is it 100 posts or 250 to get to classifieds? I saw different things in different places on the site.

You should be able to view them and reply in them now. Pretty sure I had 5 or so posts first time I bought something.

 

[St7_77]

Yeah. I think it's 100 or 250 to sell something. But that's okay. It'll be a spell before I have anything to sell.

 

[dcfis]

What Mains ya got?

 

[St7_77]

You mean at the studio?

 

[dcfis]

Yes in your studio

 

[St7_77]

Tannoy SGM10B and
Auratone 5C (late 70s) are the primaries, and sometimes

Yamaha NS-10M and
Acoustic Energy AE1...
And headphones wise HD600 (much preferred over the bass-boosted 650s)....
DAC = D’Box.

 

[dcfis]

Nice, My buddy listens to DMT 12s that came out of a studio in new york. Can you explain why everyone used ns-10s? Ive talked to many people and they just say its a standard, everyone has them. Though noone claims they sound good

 

[St7_77]

The point is not to sound good in the studio (except for client playback perhaps). The point is for it to “translate” to other stereos beyond the the studio’s monitors. Despite what’s common in car audio, frequency response is NOT the only important measure - not for a studio monitor anyway. There are many flatter speakers than the ones I use and definitely ones with better low end extension. Back to the NS10. It’s a sealed cabinet. This means the low end (for this driver and cab at least) starts rolling off at maybe 100 or ~75hz at best. BUT the lows that are there are much faster / more accurate (outside of freq response). NS10s also have a nasty frequency peak somehwhere around 2-7K (sorry to not be more specific) and don’t have great high frequency extension either. Sounding like a horrible speaker yet? Honestly I love auratones even more which are nicknamed “horrortones” because they are so mid centric.... NS10s though. So, that nasty frequency spike forces an engineer to smooth out the vocals or if the electric guitars or cymbals or whatever are too spiky right around the frequencies where our ears are most senseitice. The lack of deep low end also helps us stay focused on what’s most important in a mic - the mid range. Why mids? Because our ears hear mids easier than highs or lows, especially when listening at low volume (google fletcher musnson curve). Plus we have no idea whose stereo will have great highs and lows but even the crappiest Apple earbuds or laptop speakers still has some mids. Mixing with the primary focus on the mids also means the mix comes out louder (and not due to compression) because we naturally get the midrange more “full” sounding, and that’s loudest to the way humans hear plus takes less wattage to reproduce than low end (think about loud rock records, there isn’t actually much bottom end on a lot of them - sadly because it got squashed away in the loudness wars for some recordings in the last 20ish years). Lastly, Since NS10s aren’t very loud in the lows (they’re there but fairly rolled off) it lets the mix engineer know whether too much of the bass guitar, or floor tom, or even vocal’s energy is made up of deep lows. If you mix solely on some scooped modern studio monitor (most of the crap available these days), it can sound bangin in the studio and then take it to a car with a stock system, especislly an older car without good lows, and all the volumes of the instruments in the mix may seem to be way different than what you heard in the studio. Why? Several reasons. But one is that the mix had too much energy (at least for certain instruments/sources) below say 80-100Hz. Maybe the floor tom didn’t need to have ALL its 250-700 gutted (or even more). Maybe the bass guitar actually needs a HPF or low shelf reduction not a low end boost. Etc etc. mixing records is a bit more complicated frequency wise than it might appear and a lot of if it counterintuitive.

 

[St7_77]

I hope these posts are counting cause that’s a knowledge post, ha.... PS. There’s a common misconception that “well great engineers work on shorty speakers like NS10s so my earbuds/computer speakers/bottom dollar GC junk will work fine”. Nope, odds are the junk most people have around their house are not closed enclosures, do not have good crossovers, are artificially bass boosted, etc, etc. The NS10 standards aren’t accidentally standard. They are because they work. They can be pretty hairy to listen to, especially if not on a good amp and positioned well, but they translate well (so long as they aren’t the only speaker used, or the person has enough experience to know not to go boosting severely at frequencies those speakers barely reproduce). Almost no one mixes with those only though. Everyone uses them along side some more full bandwidth speakers. A lot of stuff is different in the studio though from car audio. Phase alignment has to be MUCH better when you’re tinkering inside a mix. Example - subs are rarely incorporated well in studios and it screws stuff up. Ramble, ramble, ramble....

 

[OldNewbie]

This reminds me of when I used to sell hi-fi in the 80's and people would come in looking for this or that because 'That's what the Pros' use." Pro's (DJ's or others) are not listening in a living room trying to enjoy the music. Their objectives are much different than yours.

 

[St7_77]

Yep^... what he said. Although it does also change what we find enjoyable after awhile.

 

[dcfis]

Well the reason Im saying is so many of my Super high end home audio guys are going more and more to powered studio monitors. Eggleston and Wilson speakers are being replace with M2s (all the rage and changed my whole perspective of home playback). A Guy that had Harbeth are using Amphion studio monitors, another with Sonus Faber Extremas he worships are sharing time with JBL 708 monitors.

Things are shifting very quickly in high end home audio.

 

[dgage]

Well the reason Im saying is so many of my Super high end home audio guys are going more and more to powered studio monitors. Eggleston and Wilson speakers are being replace with M2s (all the rage and changed my whole perspective of home playback). A Guy that had Harbeth are using Amphion studio monitors, another with Sonus Faber Extremas he worships are sharing time with JBL 708 monitors.

Things are shifting very quickly in high end home audio.

I really think some of the speakers you mentioned switching from are more impressive for their cost than their audio playback acumen but my Wilson exposure is limited but what I have heard left me questioning people’s sanity. I’ve heard the JBL M2s and they are impressive though definitely need a sub when pushed. And the 708Ps are a nice smaller speaker. Also heard the JBL 4722s (with upgraded comp driver) and they were effortless in a med size home theater room, which makes sense since they were designed for an actual theater.

I build large home theater subwoofers and I am constantly annoyed how poorly some sound engineers neuter or wreck the low frequency extension on movie soundtracks.

 

[St7_77]

Well the reason Im saying is so many of my Super high end home audio guys are going more and more to powered studio monitors. Eggleston and Wilson speakers are being replace with M2s (all the rage and changed my whole perspective of home playback). A Guy that had Harbeth are using Amphion studio monitors, another with Sonus Faber Extremas he worships are sharing time with JBL 708 monitors.

Things are shifting very quickly in high end home audio.

No offense but the speakers you mentioned (minus amphion), I don’t know any engineers using them (and amphions, kinda a passing fad it seems in studios but I’m not sure. I heard them once and they were pleasant, like way too soft sounding for mixing, but maybe it was the amphion class D amp). Ironically a lot of high end engineers are more toward hifi companies than “studio monitor” companies. Examples - ATC, ProAc, B&W, PMC, NS10 is a home bookshelf speaker, etc... Not to say that there aren’t guys on stuff like Barefoots (DSP’d to death I’m my opinion. Sounds like what chromatic aberration looks like.. but I digress). I’m more for old school solid science generally than odd new tech. Doing it right takes longer. Having a good sounding room is more effort than getting speakers that promise to only radiate sound forward and such, but so far I’ve not liked overly complex science that’s often a bandaid for just doing the old way really really well.

 

[St7_77]

PS. This is always the case though. M2 for example may sound “impressive”. And that’s the goal of hifi perhaps. As a worker though, if those are the huge ones I heard awhile back, they sounded impossible to actually work on. There are some good JBLs, from way back in the day. The new ones I can’t hang with... If you/ your friends get a chance to hear some big ATC stuff, see what you think. It may not go super deep in the lows (some models) but everything else is far more natural sounding than most stuff out there.

 

[dgage]

I agree. I’ll take decent speakers in a well-planned room than great speakers in a mediocre (for audio) room.