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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got my peerless XLS10 autosound 4ohm sub, and I must say that I am very impressed. I swapped it out for an Arc Audio 12D2(same as IDQ12) and I must say that the peerless hands the Arc its ***. The Arc and Peerless drivers were both installed in sealed enclosures to give them a Q of roughly .5; both were stuffed with polyfill.

This is a 10 vs. a 12 here, guys. No contest in output or sound quality. The peerless despite having a posted excursion roughly similar to the Arc 12 moves a lot more air, even with the MUCH greater cone area of the Arc... I'm rather confused by this especially considering the surround of the peerless is a tad large and limits it's effective piston area. The sensitivy difference I feel is not an issue because the Zapco studio 150 that I'm using drove both subs to their full excursion.

Let me say, I will never again go by numbers when selecting my components after the results I found here (not that I did that much anyways, but they do have some bearing). The f3 of the Arc in it's box according to Image dynamics was around 45hz... the f3 of the peerless was 79hz :shock:, and the peerless sounds deeper, fuller, and smoother. I would expect with a high f3 like that to hear boomy, peaky, nasty bass, but this XLS sounds like butter. It has some booty where the Arc sounded hollow and lacked that tasty "thump". This sub does everything right, it absolutely outperforms the Arc, and I've owned many, many, ID subs. I have nothing against them but I think I may never buy one again.

I will post a detailed review with more exact descriptions of the sub's performance and also include pics in the reveiws section of this forum.

Are any of you other guys using the XLS? As much gusto as this sub has I'm afraid to try out the XXLS... :)
 
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Of course happy to hear you like the Peerless ... but I do believe that some basic analysis (yes, the numbers!) do go a long way to describing a sub's performance. I wonder if the ID number for F3 in the enclosure was "in-car", thereby including the effects of cabin gain, compared to the Peerless without cabin gain?

I'd like to see the T/S parameters for the Arc sub that yield an F3 of 25Hz in an optimal enclosure ... without cabin gain. Certainly the "small signal" analysis doesn't tell you everything ... but It seems that both these subs have respectable linear throw, and once adjusted for efficiency differences the subs' performance should be fairly easy to predict.
 

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so whats the difference between the XLS and the XXLS woofers?

and I went to the peerless website and the XXLS woofers (only 4 ohm??) look very different from the ones on madisound??

im confused
 

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newtitan said:
so whats the difference between the XLS and the XXLS woofers?

and I went to the peerless website and the XXLS woofers (only 4 ohm??) look very different from the ones on madisound??

im confused
Bumped backplate? :)

And more voice coil options. One for sealed box, pr, and vented.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry 'bout that... I don't know why I typed 25hz, that's the in car response. 45hz is what I was shooting for. Fixed.

The f3 numbers of 45hz and 79hz were both attained from plotting in bassbox pro. Just did it again to double check. They have similar curve shapes, just the Arc shows much lower extension, however in real life seems not to perform... as I said before, I'm confused. Numbers are nice but they don't always apply to real life situations.

The reason I say according to Image dynamics is because the specs that plot out don't seem to jive with the actual performance of the driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also, I realize by numbers that the Arc should have much higher output by sheer displacement... This definitely is not the first time I've dealt with an ID sub and it has the same output characteritics as every other one I've ever run.

The XLS 10 just seems to have more, well, "beef".
 

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so which one for sealed applications?

nevemind found it on the dst site

ouch 62 liters for the 12" XXLS??? is that right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sorry my numbers were fruity at first guys... I think I have everything straight now. I made up my list, and I checked it twice... I'm gonna find out which sub is naughty or nice :D

Madisound recommended a box of 19 liters sealed and I'm using about 21. Should be about .45 Q with an f3 of 80hz... am looking at the plot as I type.

I really wonder what is going on here... I know that the difference in output is a cabin gain vs. sensitivity at a given frequency issue, but I'm not sure of exactly what I'm hearing. I really wish still had both subs so I could bring them inside and run them off of my QSC power amp and see what they do when the gain is less of an issue. Then I could give you guys a more objective opinion.

I can still wholeheartedly say I would pick the peerless driver over the ID driver anyday...
 

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anyone know the xmax on these?

wondering if theyd be a upgrade over my a/d/s series 3 12's

the depth is perfect for my truck :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I remember npdang making a comment that the 13mm number for the XXLS was the overhang but the actual excursion was a tad more.

I can vouch that my XLS10 has at least 1-2mm more usable excursion than the spec'd number, I set up a set of digital calipers with a little paper tab on the end of the slide touching the cone and did a ghetto ts-parameter check. I am guessing that it maxes out at 15mm(without going overboard) but I am not sure if it is reasonably linear all the way to that point.
 

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xmax motor around 13 , xmax mech. is 18 mm
 

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Coil length 33mm, minus the gap height 8mm, = 25mm of coil overhang on both sides. Divide that by 2, you have a 1 way overhang of 12.5mm. Usually for standard overhung, xmax is vc overhang + 15% or so. The XLS is a well designed driver, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a bit higher. Xmech I believe they stated was 55mm peak to peak.

In my car, a F3 of about 65hz yields a flat response. If you model the XXLS sealed in the recommended home enclosure the F3 is pretty low I believe ~30hz? So for car I prefer a smaller box ~1cf and higher qts.
 

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What about the XXLS 10"? any test report? Looked at madisound and they recommend the same 62L for the 10"... :?: :shock: Cheapboy, do you sell them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think xmech on the 12 may reach 18mm but if you pushed the 10 to that point you would start to hear glue joints crack. Mitutoyo calipers don't lie. :)

I think that the XLS10 has more usable excursion than my Arc 12, that combined with the XLS10's superior efficiency at higher frequencies may have to do with its apparent higher output to my ears.
 
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