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first... these are the most expensive drivers i have ever considered running in sql system for a car. i really dont have this kind of money to blow, but my imagination for the best sound is killing me. i need to find a tweeter for a 2-way active system that will match well with this driver. i sure would like to save some money for the highs for this future build. i listen to mostly metal... i like an airy in your face sound but i dont want my ears to bleed. here's the illuminator driver that im strongly considering for this future build.

Scanspeak Illuminator 18WU/4747T-00, 7" Aluminum Cone Woofer 4 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store
 

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You can get some idea right here:
Zaph|Audio
Take your pick ;)
 

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You want to put 660 watts on a $325 mid?

I beg you to reconsider...

Someone has a pair of 8 ohm Extremis mids for sale on here right now, those would probably be a much better choice.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=296-600 These would be a better choice.

Those Scan Speak 18Us are designed for very high end HOME audio - not meant to be used in the extreme conditions of a car. And not to sound rude but you don't seem terribly experienced in DIY audio. Start with something that won't cost a small fortune to replace then move up the ranks if you are unsatisfied.
 

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You want to put 660 watts on a $325 mid?

I beg you to reconsider...

Someone has a pair of 8 ohm Extremis mids for sale on here right now, those would probably be a much better choice.

Usher 8945A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer 296-600 These would be a better choice.

Those Scan Speak 18Us are designed for very high end HOME audio - not meant to be used in the extreme conditions of a car. And not to sound rude but you don't seem terribly experienced in DIY audio. Start with something that won't cost a small fortune to replace then move up the ranks if you are unsatisfied.
Those drivers will work fine in a car environment, especially the AL coned version. You just have to do a proper protected door install where they won't get wet or drenched. Just like you should do with any other expensive driver IMO, DIY or car audio. I realize that car specific models can have special weather treatments to help, but you normally only see this on the lower end lines where people will just be throwing them in the door and not give the install much care.

Some high end car audio companies even sell DIY home audio drivers as car audio drivers with nothing more than a different sticker on the back.

Remember this site was built on using raw DIY drivers instead of car specific models. Haven't heard one person complain about something happening yet, even years later.
 

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Those drivers will work fine in a car environment, especially the AL coned version. You just have to do a proper protected door install where they won't get wet or drenched. Just like you should do with any other expensive driver IMO, DIY or car audio. I realize that car specific models can have special weather treatments to help, but you normally only see this on the lower end lines where people will just be throwing them in the door and not give the install much care.

Some high end car audio companies even sell DIY home audio drivers as car audio drivers with nothing more than a different sticker on the back.

Remember this site was built on using raw DIY drivers instead of car specific models. Haven't heard one person complain about something happening yet, even years later.
I know the site was founded this way. However, I was more so referring to this specific driver - it would be a very expensive leap of faith. The risk of something happening to damage it are rather high. This is also a reason I stay completely away from most car audio companies/speakers.

I sincerely believe the OP has best intentions but can achieve these goals using a much less expensive driver and much less power than he suggests. Yesterday he told us he would bridge 2 channels of a Leviathan on each mid.

I firmly believe in finding a driver to suit your needs, not finding "the best" and trying to make it work in your situation. However, if he chooses to use these drivers (which I HIGHLY advise against) then please proceed with caution.
 

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I know the site was founded this way. However, I was more so referring to this specific driver - it would be a very expensive leap of faith. The risk of something happening to damage it are rather high. This is also a reason I stay completely away from most car audio companies/speakers.
That's no way to live in the hobby/industry of car audio. If you never break anything you don't learn the limits of your hardware.
 

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That's no way to live in the hobby/industry of car audio. If you never break anything you don't learn the limits of your hardware.
Well, I prefer to use as little bankroll as possible doing my car while not sacrificing quality. I also prefer to go with very well documents equipment with a history of testing well and being used successfully in several designs. That's why my next install is going to be all Dayton drivers except the sub (which very well could still end up being Dayton).
 

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That's why my next install is going to be all Dayton drivers except the sub (which very well could still end up being Dayton).
:confused: You're fine with using drivers marketed to home audio DIYers but you won't trust companies who build for a 30+ year old market? Is it the price difference?
 

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In a 2 way setup I'd go with the revelator over this one, look both up on Zaph's site:
Zaph|Audio

Zaph Audio about the Scan-Speak 18WU8741T00 said:
Comments: This is the new 18cm flagship Illuminator from Scan-Speak. It is a large excursion underhung neodymium motor design with low distortion and excellent build quality. There is a small hiccup in the response curve at 1200 Hz and a mild breakup between 3 and 4kHz. The frame design is particularly free flowing and begs to be installed in a dipole. Overall it's an excellent performer but unfortunately not quite up to the class leading (and cheaper) Revelator 18W8531G. Tested December 2008.
Zaph Audio about the Scan-Speak 18W8531G said:
Comments: Exceptionally well engineered driver in all areas. Uses Scan Speak's proprietary slit cone construction to control breakup nodes. Strong and well ventilated frame. Very low harmonic distortion and smooth, extended frequency response. Lots of copper in the motor is reflected in the impedance curve and overall performance. Not a whole lot to complain about here except for the high price. Needs a slightly larger enclosure than one could hope for. Expensive, but much higher on the value scale than any other +$200 woofer. Tested June 2006.
The paper cone might have more problems in a door though within the car environment.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
In a 2 way setup I'd go with the revelator over this one, look both up on Zaph's site:
Zaph|Audio



The paper cone might have more problems in a door though within the car environment.

the revelator doesnt have the linear excursion like the illuminator. the illuminator seems very promising considering the type of music i listen to.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
You want to put 660 watts on a $325 mid?

I beg you to reconsider...

Someone has a pair of 8 ohm Extremis mids for sale on here right now, those would probably be a much better choice.

Usher 8945A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer 296-600 These would be a better choice.

Those Scan Speak 18Us are designed for very high end HOME audio - not meant to be used in the extreme conditions of a car. And not to sound rude but you don't seem terribly experienced in DIY audio. Start with something that won't cost a small fortune to replace then move up the ranks if you are unsatisfied.

using the leviathan... i dont need to bridge the channels soo i can get more power to the mids. i was only considering that option if i used a pro adio or sub to use in an active 3-way. now that im pretty much set on an active 2 way with the possibility of adding a midrange later.... i have no desire or need to bridge channels 1-4.
 

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Get the illuminator paper version and protect them with one of those foam pods cut into a tent like shape.

Brace the driver mounting location and cover up any openings that lead into the cabin with a dense rigid panel.

Apply correct sound deadening to your doors(if mounting the drivers there, even if not for lower noise and increased effective speaker output).

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

And finish of with a pair of these for excellent performance, greater sensitivity, and lower high pass crossover point.

ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6620-00 Tweeter: Madisound Speaker Store
 

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Pro audio mids need less power, not more, to get just as loud. If you look at pro mids efficiency, you'll notice they tend to be greater than 90dB 1w/1m.

Now, if you can afford to, and still insist on that great amount of displacement, I'd recommend going with an 8" mid like Dayton RS225.

I still think you can accomplish your goals with a much less expensive driver. Midbass doesn't require much excursion like bass does. If you plan to cross your mids at 80 hz at 12 db/octave, I can't see you needing more than 6mm 1 way. Most of that Illuminator excursion is wasted unless you run it to bass frequencies.

I highly recommend you change your midbass driver selection unless you are competing in IASCA in an extremely well controlled environment in your car.

However, if you insist on doing it your way, then by all means.. I am not trying to say you're wrong or prove a point. It's easy to fall into the trap of finding the "perfect driver" but in all reality, it's just as heavily weighted towards the install and application of using that driver.
 

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:confused: You're fine with using drivers marketed to home audio DIYers but you won't trust companies who build for a 30+ year old market? Is it the price difference?
Price, quality, consistency, abundance of verified specifications/test results, abundance of successful and objectively designed applications.

By all means I embody the spirit of DIYMA but so many car audio companies have very subpar products designed in cookie-cutter fashion.

The passive crossover I am using between Dayton ND16 and Dayton ND105-4 is specifically designed for both of those drivers in a specific application and I'm tailoring it to my car. Most car audio companies slap a sub-mediocre 2nd order electric crossover on a tweeter and woofer, not bothering to account for several issues.

Back to the topic here - I think the OP is thinking a LOT bigger than he needs to on this. The only reason to have a mid with 11mm 1 way excursion is if it's playing bass.

But anyways, my advice is revisit your design OP. You do NOT need to spend $1000 on just the woofer/tweeter for your setup other than to tell people you spent $1000 on just the woofer and tweeter.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Get the illuminator paper version and protect them with one of those foam pods cut into a tent like shape.

Brace the driver mounting location and cover up any openings that lead into the cabin with a dense rigid panel.

Apply correct sound deadening to your doors(if mounting the drivers there, even if not for lower noise and increased effective speaker output).

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

And finish of with a pair of these for excellent performance, greater sensitivity, and lower high pass crossover point.

ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6620-00 Tweeter: Madisound Speaker Store
wow... those tweeters look awesome. i guess the best place to mount those is off axis in the a-pillar. not gonna lie... i was hoping i could get a tweeter suggestion that a little smaller price tag, but... if im gonna go with a really high end mid... mind as well match it with the best. hopefully i dont fry these drivers blasting death and black metal.

second... i assume going with the paper cone will be a little less revealing toward poor recordings than the aluminum cone. i was strongly considering the aluminum cone due to the car environment. i know dls and morel... lots of car audio manufactures use paper cones. my old idq8's were limited edition paper cones as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Price, quality, consistency, abundance of verified specifications/test results, abundance of successful and objectively designed applications.

By all means I embody the spirit of DIYMA but so many car audio companies have very subpar products designed in cookie-cutter fashion.

The passive crossover I am using between Dayton ND16 and Dayton ND105-4 is specifically designed for both of those drivers in a specific application and I'm tailoring it to my car. Most car audio companies slap a sub-mediocre 2nd order electric crossover on a tweeter and woofer, not bothering to account for several issues.

Back to the topic here - I think the OP is thinking a LOT bigger than he needs to on this. The only reason to have a mid with 11mm 1 way excursion is if it's playing bass.

But anyways, my advice is revisit your design OP. You do NOT need to spend $1000 on just the woofer/tweeter for your setup other than to tell people you spent $1000 on just the woofer and tweeter.
have you ever listened to death metal at high listening levels? when the drummer is going back and forth doing blast beats with the snare, tom toms and kick-drum... most drivers will bottom out. i dont care how awesome of a tube amp your using or the best comp set out there... your drivers will bottom out and you can hear and visible see the decay. with the long excursion of this particular driver... its almost mathematically impossible to bottom out this driver. unless you had free air streaming 15hz notes at full tilt.

then people say.... why dont you let the subs play above 80hz to cover midbass and bring the bass to the front of the car. hmmm... tried that. not the sound im looking for. i want to hear thunderous crack in the chest from the kick-drums. solid impact coming from the front of the car. these drivers look like that can do this with authority and sound good doing it.


i know you can save money going fostec, silver flute, peerless, ect... but i wanna give a higher end company a shot. think i wanna blow a $1000 on some raw drivers just because i think their must be good because the expensive? absolutely not! i wish like hell i could spend $4 each on 4" mids to run in a line array... buy 60 of them and blast my head off with a giant smile from ear to ear, but... this is a car. install and tuning is very important. soo should your driver selection be to.
 

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Well, IMO, you're better off buying (2) Exodus Anarchy woofers for each side ... or figuring out a way to mount a shallow sub up front. With a single midbass you're going to run in to power compression issues. Based off your description you either need (a) a lot of sensitivity and excursion (not happening unless you go LARGE & pro-sound) or (b) you need to double up woofers and go with horns.


The 18wu is a beast. But it's limited like any other driver and it sounds like you're goal is something far more severe than most any other listener here.



My $.02.
 

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wow... those tweeters look awesome. i guess the best place to mount those is off axis in the a-pillar. not gonna lie... i was hoping i could get a tweeter suggestion that a little smaller price tag, but... if im gonna go with a really high end mid... mind as well match it with the best. hopefully i dont fry these drivers blasting death and black metal.

second... i assume going with the paper cone will be a little less revealing toward poor recordings than the aluminum cone. i was strongly considering the aluminum cone due to the car environment. i know dls and morel... lots of car audio manufactures use paper cones. my old idq8's were limited edition paper cones as well.
First I just want to say that I am making my recommendations based off your specific needs and wants more so than what I think would be best.

That being said, the paper cone should allow for a higher crossover point, which mated with that tweeter, which is several db more efficient and handles a lower crossover point than the compact dome 1" illu., will cater more to a high output 2 way.

Assuming you can mount it no more than 30 degree off axis. If you can't then going with a more easily aimed 1" illuminator compact dome running on axis will likely perform better and might be as compatible with the woofer and system needs.

And like you said, the paper cone should be more forgiving than the AL cone. So should the dome version of the illuminator tweeters versus the ring radiators. Based on reviews I've read.

I also think the extra xmax from the illuminator can be of benefit even if not crossing over below say 65Hz. That woofer will suffer less power compression than others so it should be able to take advantage of that excursion at higher frequencies.
 

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then people say.... why dont you let the subs play above 80hz to cover midbass and bring the bass to the front of the car. hmmm... tried that. not the sound im looking for. i want to hear thunderous crack in the chest from the kick-drums. solid impact coming from the front of the car. these drivers look like that can do this with authority and sound good doing it.
You will not get that from one 7" driver on each side. You need to increase surface area and sensitivity most likely. Re-evaluate your system goals and do a lot of research into how to get those goals or risk being very disappointed on a very high dollar purchase.

With that, I'll see my way out. Best of luck in your endeavors.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
First I just want to say that I am making my recommendations based off your specific needs and wants more so than what I think would be best.
hmmm... so you dont think this is the best option? im open ears. not gonna lie... i really dont want to do a crazy install. tearing the doors apart and having to build the crap out of them just to mount a massive 10" pro driver or dual 6.5's per door. i want this system to be loud and clean, but like i said... i dont want to do a crazy modify the whole car system.
 
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