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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
(big appologies for the typo in the heading)

Hello all, ok, pioneer p99rs owner here, brand new, running focal utopia 4way active. Mid/tweeter in pods above dash, mounted vertical, off axis, left aimed and centre of right seat and vice versa. (Admitedly not a calibrated install)

Auto TA is great, takes into acount a lot of reflections that I cant with just measuring the distance. Question is, auto TA gives a nice wide sound stage with focus, but too little focus, it tends to pull left if im seated right and vice versa (have ta'd both seats at front)

From here, when I modify the mids/highs to pull the field more central/slightly more in front of my face, I feel like the sound field is right in front of me, but a lot narrower, I feel like i lose a sense of space and width. (Mids are crossed at 250hz hp, midbass are crossed 200hz lp 12db slope to catch the gap) - (I found the 250hz sitting on the dash gave me fantastic direction control with all vocals and lead sounds sitting here)

Does anyone have any advice to keep a nice wide sound field but with more focus? Is it the angle of my pods? should I have them facing more directly to the facing seat, ie, the right pod firing into the right seat and vice versa!

Help!!
 

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To get the focus you have to balance L/R frequency response with the 31 band eq. Download the pink noise for all frequencies and use a mic / rta to measure left only vs right only response and use the eq to balance.
 

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Agreed on Auto anything being less than ideal. Refrained from saying that cause he seems happy with the results for now. When starting out, the lesser variables you have to manage the better. If he sticks with it over time he will be an OCD tweaker like some of us are:)
 

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Agreed on Auto anything being less than ideal. Refrained from saying that cause he seems happy with the results for now. When starting out, the lesser variables you have to manage the better. If he sticks with it over time he will be an OCD tweaker like some of us are:)
I know that feeling :rolleyes:.
 

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The P99 is putting the stage in the center of the car, not in front of you. If you were off center at a concert you wouldn't expect the band to shift in front of you, would you? Same thing here. That's not to say you're wrong or that you can't set it up to your preference. Just that the P99 will always align to the center of the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
so ive done a very basic thing! for now it seems to have yielded the best results. Did the L/R eq through all 31bands but balanced by ear! since im listening to it i guess the result is better for me, and it sounds great!! I will do a software tune a little later on, but for now this is fine! (however there can be a little bit of harshness through the higher frequencies which i can drop with volume)

BUT! Im not liking the fact that im using a sandpaper approach by eqing my sound, ive always believed eqing was a very last resort. I feel i should leave eq flat and use time align instead? may play around with this tomorrow. I'll play through the 31 again and centre each frequency with ta instead of eq and see what i get!

ps
did this for my seat, passenger seat and sat where the hand brake is to give the best balance for both seats, (2 hours later) massive amounts of adjusting for left and right, but only 4 bands around the 200 to 500hz mark needed a slight tug up or down to get centred for the hand brake position
 

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so ive done a very basic thing! for now this is fine! (however there can be a little bit of harshness through the higher frequencies which i can drop with volume)
Balancing for L/R is the first step. Once you've done this you need to level match (does not mean flat) across the 31 frequencies to get the tonality right. If you've got harshness in vocals cut a bit in the 2-4khz and in the 6-8khz range if you have sibilance.

BUT! Im not liking the fact that im using a sandpaper approach by eqing my sound, ive always believed eqing was a very last resort. I feel i should leave eq flat and use time align instead? may play around with this tomorrow. I'll play through the 31 again and centre each frequency with ta instead of eq and see what i get!
What you like and what you need to do, can be two different things. Car audio forums are full of myths. Anyone who tells you that you don't need an eq in a car, does not know much about car audio and will not have "great" sound in the car. There is a reason why that hu gives you an excellent equaliser, TA and options for Xover points and slopes. The reason is, you need to use ALL these tuning tools together, to find the setting that works best for your environment and driver placements. If you're not using everything , you're missing out on what that unit can deliver. It's not about either or. Think everything, together.

Please, if you want to use the p99 to its fullest potential you have to forget about 'flat' anything. Always think cut before boost.

did this for my seat, passenger seat and sat where the hand brake is to give the best balance for both seats, (2 hours later) massive amounts of adjusting for left and right, but only 4 bands around the 200 to 500hz mark needed a slight tug up or down to get centred for the hand brake position
You do the tuning from the drivers seat, I've never tuned sitting on the hand brake :). But I guess if you're going for a 2 seat setup then anything is game. Hang in there it will get better over time.
 

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I have. Ouch. :D:p
lol this hobby makes us do crazy stuff. At one point, I was very hooked on the whole dispersion thing. I wanted to 'see' the sound waves from the speakers to my ears, possibly see the reflections. I spoke to a friend who runs an event management company and borrowed a smoke machine. Filled the car interiors with smoke, jumped in and shut the door.

As I sat there pondering my stupidity, the phone rang. It was the wife, in a state of panic, "Arun, there's a fire inside the car". :laugh:
 

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BUT! Im not liking the fact that im using a sandpaper approach by eqing my sound, ive always believed eqing was a very last resort but not anymore because IT IS REQUIRED inside car. I feel i should eq until it sounds good and also use time alignment!!
Fixed xD
 

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To : OP, any progress?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
havent gotten around to playing with TA again as the eq "TA" still sounds pretty loverly! however, i went through and i do have a couple of drastic reductions :S ive got one freq. at -9db and another at +4, and a few around -5/+2.5 to 3.5 er, this feels a little extreme :S i remember turning my home theatre system and was told anything above or below +/- 1, 1.5 is getting extreme? On a positive note i managed to keep most the changes as a deduction, so no boosting frequencies, and the freq. on average that i did boost only sit at around +1 to 1.5.

comments?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
and on a random side note; anyone been fortunate enough to have heard a few good 3/4way setups and do a side by side comparison with the utopias? I didnt, I was very very veeeery lucky and won a bidding war on ebay that got me these utopias and the 21wx for about 75% cheaper than rrp. Ive never heard speakers this detailed before, which is great! but im running a full surround dynaudio system at home for my "theatre" and these utopias have now made them sound muddy :I time to sell the dyn's n move on to something else maybe?
 

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havent gotten around to playing with TA again as the eq "TA" still sounds pretty loverly! however, i went through and i do have a couple of drastic reductions :S ive got one freq. at -9db and another at +4, and a few around -5/+2.5 to 3.5 er, this feels a little extreme :S i remember turning my home theatre system and was told anything above or below +/- 1, 1.5 is getting extreme? On a positive note i managed to keep most the changes as a deduction, so no boosting frequencies, and the freq. on average that i did boost only sit at around +1 to 1.5.

comments?
Absolutely normal in a car. It'll be even less EQ once you use your T/A.
 

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havent gotten around to playing with TA again as the eq "TA" still sounds pretty loverly! however, i went through and i do have a couple of drastic reductions :S ive got one freq. at -9db and another at +4, and a few around -5/+2.5 to 3.5 er, this feels a little extreme :S i remember turning my home theatre system and was told anything above or below +/- 1, 1.5 is getting extreme? On a positive note i managed to keep most the changes as a deduction, so no boosting frequencies, and the freq. on average that i did boost only sit at around +1 to 1.5.

comments?
As long as you have done the FR measurement for left and right side and if that tells you you have a peak somewhere of 8-9db (could be due to the driver placement / the cars environment or the driver itself) then its fine. A car is a crappy environment and you will have these peaks and dips. If you're cutting a frequency on side by 9 db and then boosting the other side by by 7 db then you may need to re look at things. It has to sound right, keep that in mind. As a start don't do the L/R by ear alone. I tune largely by ear but I will go back from time to time and measure everything just to make sure my ears aren't playing tricks on me. Nutshell: you're doing ok.

and on a random side note; anyone been fortunate enough to have heard a few good 3/4way setups and do a side by side comparison with the utopias? I didnt, I was very very veeeery lucky and won a bidding war on ebay that got me these utopias and the 21wx for about 75% cheaper than rrp. Ive never heard speakers this detailed before, which is great! but im running a full surround dynaudio system at home for my "theatre" and these utopias have now made them sound muddy :I time to sell the dyn's n move on to something else maybe?
Thats the other thing about this hobby, the constant desire to upgrade. :)
 

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I've used the Focal Utopia Be kit no.7 in my car in both active and passive modes. Yes they're very detailed. The jewel of the bunch is, IMHO, the tweeter. :)

The midbass can be problematic depending on the install. Door deadening and damping must be just right. In my experience, Focal 6w3 midbass doesn't like doors that are overkill--deadened. They tend to "boom" somewhere around 125Hz.

Please post a picture of your install. I'm curious to see it. :)
 

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havent gotten around to playing with TA again as the eq "TA" still sounds pretty loverly! however, i went through and i do have a couple of drastic reductions :S ive got one freq. at -9db and another at +4, and a few around -5/+2.5 to 3.5 er, this feels a little extreme :S i remember turning my home theatre system and was told anything above or below +/- 1, 1.5 is getting extreme? On a positive note i managed to keep most the changes as a deduction, so no boosting frequencies, and the freq. on average that i did boost only sit at around +1 to 1.5.

comments?
The 9db cut has been rattling around in my head for a bit. It seems a bit severe on second thought. Is this based on measured response or by what sounds right? What frequency is this at? In a typical car install you would cut a fair bit around 80hz to prevent boomy sound, or it could be the issue that co_leonard is talking about. Sometimes the speaker itself will have a peak in the response. Eg the SR mids I run, have a big peak around 650hz, so that is cut a fair bit. Point is if the 9db peak is caused by something other than the speaker itself, it may help if you tweak the install a bit to reduce this.

Just make sure you do the L/R eq based on measured response as well as how it sounds. Cheers.
 

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Just make sure you do the L/R eq based on measured response as well as how it sounds. Cheers.
This is for me the most important building block of tuning with the P99. Its got independent 31-band left and right EQ. If your handy with an RTA or know a shop (or a friend) who can tune it for you, by all means make use of the P99's awesome EQ capabilities. :)

The idea here is to tune it so that from the driver's seat, all speakers on the LEFT OF THE CAR to sound exactly like all speakers on the RIGHT OF THE CAR.

Once you've got this down, everything else follows smoothly. At least it does in my experience. :)
 
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