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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I own BMW E39 '98. For quite a while I've had this setup :

-Digital CD Changer (flash/usb mp3 playback) Xcarlink
-Factory RDS Business (no cd) head unit
-Rockford Fosgate T-600-4
-JL Audio Slash 500/1
-JL Audio 12W6v2
-Front Midwoofer - Morel Supremo SW6 (unfortunately connected to Blaupunkt VPC 542 crossover)
-Front tweeter - taken from Blaupunkt VPC 542 2-way system. (on the same crossover)

All of above bought used except 12W6v2

Even on those crappy crossovers, everything was fine, really. Sound was coherent, selective and detailed. Not too laid back, not too much "in your face" edginess. Midbass from Supremos was lacking and kind of disappointed me. It had delicate punchiness but just too subtle. I can't say that bass guitars have warm, deep sound, rather - they're just there. But thats fine because mids and upper mids were rendered very well and precise, and subwoofer filled lack of depth and puchiness in a very effective manner. It made the sound whole and dynamic without much rattling and without sounding boomy and without sacrificing quality. Overall, I was really satisfied ,but you know, you always want go for more.

So i bought Morel Supremo tweeters with custom one way crossovers and Pioneer P88RS. My God... The disaster just began. I was crushed and terrified how terrible it sounded. I don't think tweeter is to blame so I'll focus on HU. Subwoofer started to sound as crappy as generic 100$ no-brand driver. It was all boomy, uncontroled, slow, blurring and kind of repressed - like the sound would stuck in my trunk and woudn't want to leave. Tweeters were to loud but I corrected that and thats the only thing that sounds good. Sound stage is a mess. I feel like I can't localize sound. It's so distant and nowhere near coherence. I've tried manually tune P88RS, I've tried auto-tune with provided microphone - AutoTA and AutoEQ. I've tried fine-tune amplifiers (Slash 500/1 has many options). No luck. Just minor improvements. Middle and upper frequencies may sound clean but overally it sounds just terrible. I have tried and tried and I gave up. You are my last resort. Otherwise I'll have to sell this unit and roll back to stock unit. Also I'm thinking about installing Audison Bit One as an active crossover and equalizer.

Could you please help me somehow?
Thanks in advance.

For the record, P88RS was connected as STD (not as an active crossover)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
daBump
 

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sorry, I been in audio for long time, but what is "CA"?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Car audio. Sorry. It may be misguiding. This term is often used in Poland.
 

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ah, ok. sometimes it helps to just start over. maybe factory defualt the P88.

ussualy a muddy sub is caused by a bad box design. what kind of box is the sub in?

I have heard the morel tweeters are very "laid back" as some put it and dont have alot of brilliance to them. do you like your tweeters to sound more bright?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You see, I'm quite satisfied with the tweeters. The problem is elsewhere. Also the box is OK (sealed) because earlier I was happy with how it sounded. I also tried to defeat everything on P88RS but that gave even worse results. I think that tomorrow I will return to stock HU. I just want to know your opinion. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
 

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Turn the gain down on the bass amp and re-auto EQ/TA and see if that improves things-the Pio drops bass levels too much for most people, raise it again afterwards.

Check you have the HU listening position correct-if you've TA'd from the drivers seat but have listening position as passenger seat that will sound very bad.

Ultimately run it in active mode. Bin the passive crossovers and run the tweeters off two channels of your amp and the mids off the other two and then re-autoEQ/TA.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah it lowers Sub level to barely audible. I corrected it too. The only thing that could change something right now is to bypass passive crossovers and use p88rs as a active crossover. But come on, it won't do wonders.
 

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True, but if that's the only difference its got to be the settings on the HU. Going active will give more control. You could try the TA/EQ again-this time cover up the tweeters and see how it goes. If that doesn't improve try covering the mids and re-doing
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks. I think it will be the last try. I wanted to try it out earlier but I didn't put much faith in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I wonder if it has something to do with Supremo tweeters positioning. What is the best positon for them? I have them placed very very slightly off-axis on dashboard in the corners. They're not on A-Pillars
 

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The positioning should be fine, try different locations and re-test. You state you have a dedicated crossover for the tweters, but also state they are running off a Blaupunkt crossover-which is it? Or is it both?
 

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What is "custom one way crossovers"?

Have you put much time and attention into the mids and sub installation? Does the auto eq check for driver polarity/phase?

The Baron's recommendations are right on.

Good luck. Hope you get it worked out soon.
 

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What is "custom one way crossovers"?

Have you put much time and attention into the mids and sub installation? Does the auto eq check for driver polarity/phase?

The Baron's recommendations are right on.

Good luck. Hope you get it worked out soon.
Thanks:)

Yes 88RS does phase of each driver 0/180
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The crossovers were made from scrap by one of MA shops. They're only for tweets.
No I have tweets and woofers connected separately. SW6 has its own crossover and Supremo tweet another one.

But the decision has been made. I left my car in a shop to return to my stock HU. I must say I'm really disappointed with P88RS. For now, I'll stay away from aftermarket HU. That left a pretty bad mark.

Also, I may consider changing SW6 woofers. In my country they cost a whooping 1500$. Thats a load of money in Poland. I paid for them (used) 500$ and still it Was 3/4 of my monthly wage. For their price, I'm really unsatisfied. Maybe it's because of their placement or poorly prepared doors. The chamber isn't fully sealed and isn't as stiff as I'd wish it to be. They are deadend with standard STP mats. Plus, I guess that this Blaupunkt crossover does it's own bad influence. We'll see when I'll buy Audison Bit One and use it as an active crossover.

By the way, thanks for the input.
 

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The crossovers were made from scrap by one of MA shops. They're only for tweets.
No I have tweets and woofers connected separately. SW6 has its own crossover and Supremo tweet another one.

But the decision has been made. I left my car in a shop to return to my stock HU. I must say I'm really disappointed with P88RS. For now, I'll stay away from aftermarket HU. That left a pretty bad mark.

Also, I may consider changing SW6 woofers. In my country they cost a whooping 1500$. Thats a load of money in Poland. I paid for them (used) 500$ and still it Was 3/4 of my monthly wage. For their price, I'm really unsatisfied. Maybe it's because of their placement or poorly prepared doors. The chamber isn't fully sealed and isn't as stiff as I'd wish it to be. They are deadend with standard STP mats. Plus, I guess that this Blaupunkt crossover does it's own bad influence. We'll see when I'll buy Audison Bit One and use it as an active crossover.

By the way, thanks for the input.
Sorry you've decided on that.

The 88RS has a very capable crossover in it and can do what you need it to.

Please explain how your crossovers have been made, you say custom individual crossovers then mention the blaupunkt crossover again. Custom is specifically designed for the job-how have you come to the crossover freqs/slopes you are using? Blaupunkt crossover suggests "bodged" together to you won't blow the speakers-but also won't get the best from them.

You have a 4ch amp, bin the crossovers and go active:
If all you've done is change the HU and sound got terrible I would say 100% the stereo or poor installation of the stereo
BUT you say that the stereo and tweeters were changed at the same time-so I'd be more inclined to think that the issue lies in the crossover, which is also the part of the install you are least clear on.

 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for help.
So I decided to return to my stock HU. And it's much better. The sound is totally more coherent. Maybe it's not as clean as it was but overall listening experience is surely better. Still, there is something with those tweeters. They seem to sound in umm...different space. Like whole rest of the sound is in one position and tweeters are positioned closer or further away. I think I need to lower gain on tweeter channel and think about changing the positioning.
 
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