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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone. As you can see this is my first post - just signed up this afternoon as I am in desperate search for some help. Any and all input is greatly appreciated. My sig shows the equipment that I am running. I am 99% sure my wiring is good - 4 gauge ofc to each amp (2 runs, yes 1 1/0 would be cleaner but this was put together in two phases), 4 gauge from bat neg to grounding point of amps, all connections tight, etc. I also set gains with a voltmeter, understand the physics behind car audio etc...ive been in the "DIY" scene for 18 years.

Phase 1 consisted of the dsr, components, 900/5 and 1 sub. Everything working perfect just wanted a little more bass.

Phase 2 has been a nightmare. Adding 2 more 10's and a JL hd750. I have double and triple checked everything, tried a different amp, etc. Basically it sounds awesome until I turn the volume up. Granted its turned up past a comfortable listening level for a nonbasshead...but no clipping, still sounds amazing until both of my amps turn off and turn back on. They continue to do so until I back off the volume or turn the bass knob down a little.

I had initially thought I bought a bad amp (the 750 was an ebay purchase and it is a little beat up) but now I am thinking otherwise. While waiting on the 750 I hooked up a slash 250/1 to test it out (if you solve my issue you can have it). Same thing happened - at high volume the amps would kick off and back on. At this point I went through and double checked all of my wiring, added the ground from the battery to the cab, tightened all connections between wires and at the amp. My 750 arrived at the same time so I never put the 250 back in.

It dawned on me today when it cut off and back on (I had thought I found the issue and was really let down by this...) that my dsr1 was actually cutting on and off. I came to this conclusion because I was connected to it via Bluetooth and when it happened I was no longer connected. Additionally, BOTH amps would turn off and on. Neither amp goes into protect - they both turn off and turn back on - light is green, then no light, then green flashes (normal when jl amps turn on), then solid green again. They also both pick right back up and when the bass hits it does it again.

Stranger thing is I tried to repeat it in my garage with the truck off just running on battery power. I figured if it was a voltage drop that the dsr1 didn't like that it would be quicker/easier to diagnose if I am on battery power. I could not get the amps to turn off. Normally it would turn off between 18-22 vol level...I got to 25 and played the songs that would normally cause an issue and it performed flawlessly.

I contacted RF support to see if its a reported issue with the dsr but he was just as stumped as I.

The only thing that I can think is my 750 isn't mounted anywhere - I never really made it through the testing phase so I haven't mounted it. Its secure but I have it in the underseat compartment where it has plenty of airflow. I didn't mention before that when this happens nothing is hot...the amps are barely even warm and the wiring isn't warm at all.

I am sure there are some details I may have left out but I am hoping that there's somebody that experienced something similar either with the f150, dsr1, or hd750 so I can wrap this up and stop taking my kids carseats out everyday to try and troubleshoot.

Thank you all in advance.
 

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I'm assuming that everything is being turned on via the DSR1 amp turn-on wire, correct? Assuming that is the case, it almost sounds like the DSR1 is the "root cause" - like it's losing power, which then causes it's amp turn-on wire to go dead, which in-turn turns off the amps - until the DSR1 comes alive again - then the amps power up.

I'm wondering if it's a defective DSR1 - or something to do with the DSR1 (losing power for whatever reason).

Unfortunately, you'd need another DSR1 to test that theory...
 

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The only time I've experienced something similar, it's been inadequate grounds. They would be good up to a point, but at high enough output, the amps would power-cycle, like you're describing. However, the fact that this doesn't happen when your truck isn't running, seems to contradict my theory above.

Did you happen to ground both amps together at the same spot? If so, try grounding them to separate locations. Don't rely on factory seat bolts (or the like) to be adequate grounds, as they often have paint, grime, or other coatings that can prevent good DC current flow. I always try to drill my own ground points into the cars metal, then use a wire brush, Dremel rotary tool, or sandpaper to remove any paint, so that I'm left with a bare metal contact area.

Give some of those suggestions a shot and report back. Regardless of it not occurring when your engine's not running, I still think it;s a ground-related problem.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Metanium - the grounds were my initial thought as I have had weak grounds cause seemingly similar issues. The amps are grounded at two different locations but basically daisy chained (not sure if that's the proper term in this scenario) so the battery runs to ground point 1 and amp 1 is grounded here, then another run of 4ga from this spot to ground point 2 where the second amp is grounded.

JT - Yes - both amps are hooked to the DSR's turn on lead. Any idea why it would happen only when 2 amps are connected? DSP's are the wild card for me - I have no clue whats happening in there but it seems it would be related to the output on the unit. When I only have the 900 running I can turn it full blast with no issue.

I thought maybe a voltage drop but I am not convinced - the truck has the max tow package so I want to say its a higher than normal amperage alternator and I have an optima redtop that's less than a year old. Total amperage on the power lines is 120 (2 60a).

This will sounds like a noob question but I am desperate...another unconventional thing I did because I didn't really think it would matter is I am running a distribution block as my inline on the power wire. I have two 4's going in, 2 4's coming out and a 60a fuse on each wire. I understand that wire doesn't discriminate but I am just throwing it all out there to see what sticks.

Thanks guys.
 

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Wait, you have the battery's negative going to the spot where you've grounded your amp 1? Why? The car's metal chassis should accomplish this, without having to run a wire to it, just connect the negative side of the battery to the car's chassis. Also, there's be no reason to run a wire from grounding point #1 to #2. Again, car's chassis should be more than adequate to accomplish this.

I still think it's a grounding issue. Back when I had a HD900/5 it was very ground sensitive, as in, if it wasn't good the amp would power-cycle.
 
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I'm also curious to know how your grounds are actually run. Maybe a more detailed explanation, or even a diagram would help. I'm worried that you may have over complicated your grounds, and what you thought was a good idea might actually be making your ground worse.

The DSR1 is based off of the old 3sixty, which has a bit of a bad reputation (I don't know how much of the design is shared). I've never used one, and I don't know if your symptoms are similar to the complaints about the 3sixty, but maybe doing some research on that DSP could help answer some questions.
 

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Try running a jumper from the remote/signal wire to +12v and run it for a while. Maybe you are losing voltage intermittently from the signal wire and everything is shutting down... where is the remote wire coming from? Head unit?
This is a good idea. Just be sure that when you disconnect the 12v, you don't ground it out, also, leaving it connected will prevent the amps from turning off when you shut down the car, so you'll want to disconnect the wires, but make sure they are capped, a fuse is pulled, or they are disconnected at the source, they will be hot wires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
First of all I appreciate the input.

GIJoe - I like where your head's at. I couldn't find any similar issues with the dsr1 but I totally forgot that it was based on the 360. I will see if I can find anybody reporting similar behavior with that unit. See below for my response about the grounds.

FattyBoom - I thought about running a jumper to the remote line but that was before I felt confident it was the dsr. Initially I thought the amp was having issues and with it being digital and as sensitive as it is I just didn't have the kahonas.

Rayray - To be honest I wouldn't have ever purchased a dsp if I didn't have to (now I will always use a dsp with any aftermarket setup). My truck is factory amplified (f150 with sync3) so I am using the T-harness or whatever they call it so the integration is plug and play. Basically whatever was powering and turning on the factory amp is now running the dsp.

Metanium and GIJoe - Regarding the grounds...starting in 2015 the F150 started using the "military grade" aluminum for the body (I actually tried to vinyl wrap my roof and forgot about this and bought magnets for the install...I can confirm that its definitely aluminum as I couldn't get the magnets to stick anywhere on the outside of the truck). After my phase 1 install I realized I had a subpar ground and my mechanic buddy recommended that I run 4ga from the battery negative to my grounding point. Same thing as you suggested just longer and he suggested this since we don't exactly know whats aluminum and whats not between the front and back of the truck so we don't know if the ground strap under the hood would be enough. I forgot to mention that I also did the big 3 with 4 gauge (only had one amp when I did it otherwise I would have gone bigger...) so my battery neg is attached to the chassis under the hood and then again in the cab. I have attached a very intricate and extremely technical sketch.

If I can think of anything else significant I will add it. Much appreciated gentlemen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey - this is a new one to me. I found this on SMD forum where it looks like the remote knobs for the 360 were acting up randomly (sometimes would adjust the volume, sometimes nothing would happen). My DSR1 is probably 12 inches from the 750 and the remote wires would be even closer. I could see this making sense since the issue occurs when I am juicing the amp which would theoretically increase the field its creating. I could also make the argument that its also why the amps didn't cut off when the ignition was off because I was under 12v the whole time where as if the alternator is turning then I would be pulling more like 13, 13.5?

I will test this tomorrow - don't think my neighbors (or sleeping kids) would appreciate me testing it right now...

EDIT - just realized I am an idiot and the first time I read RF's response I thought he was referring to the amp turn on being too close even though I went as far to explain that the remote was the issue in the video I watched...one of those days....either way I am holding onto hope.
 

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JT - Yes - both amps are hooked to the DSR's turn on lead. Any idea why it would happen only when 2 amps are connected? DSP's are the wild card for me - I have no clue whats happening in there but it seems it would be related to the output on the unit. When I only have the 900 running I can turn it full blast with no issue.



I thought maybe a voltage drop but I am not convinced - the truck has the max tow package so I want to say its a higher than normal amperage alternator and I have an optima redtop that's less than a year old. Total amperage on the power lines is 120 (2 60a).



This will sounds like a noob question but I am desperate...another unconventional thing I did because I didn't really think it would matter is I am running a distribution block as my inline on the power wire. I have two 4's going in, 2 4's coming out and a 60a fuse on each wire. I understand that wire doesn't discriminate but I am just throwing it all out there to see what sticks.



Thanks guys.
Yeah, I too was thinking that maybe your alternator wasn't able to keep up with the power demands of your audio equipment at louder volumes, but then I saw that you have an F150 truck (not some tiny car with super low output alternator). Like you said, I can't imagine that would be the problem with an F150.

Just for a comparison - here is what I'm using with my DSR1 and how it's all wired:

I have a 2018 Dodge Challenger. Using the stock head-unit (obviously), the DSR-1, a JL Audio XD600/6v2 amp and a JBL BassPro SL under-seat subwoofer. I have the DSR-1 and amp mounted a few inches from each other in the trunk (which is where the battery is on the Challenger - in the trunk). I'm running all wiring down the drivers side of the car except for the under-seat sub power wire - it's run down the passenger-side/middle of the car (right along with the main factory battery power wire) - the under-seat sub is installed under the passenger seat.

I have the JL amp (50amp fuse) and JBL BassPro SL (20 amp fuse) under-seat sub power wires going directly to the battery - each fused separately (no distribution block). Amp ground is going directly to negative battery terminal. Sub ground wire goes to a factory ground bolt under the seat. I'm using 4AWG OFC power/ground wires for the JL Audio amp and 6AWG power/ground wires for the sub power wire.

Just wanted to explain what I had and how I have everything run, just for comparison sake (since we're both using a DSR-1). Setup this way, I have no noise-related issues and no power-related issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
For anybody interested or anybody that has an unexplainable issue with the dsr1 I was able to get the issue resolved. Rather than post every detail of every test I ran I will just say that the resolution doesn't really make sense to me but I assure you I am well versed in car audio as well as troubleshooting and debugging issues (I am an ERP software consultant and when I troubleshoot I first have to repeat the problem and determine which variable is causing the issue and then figure out why its causing the issue).

Root cause: splitting the subwoofer channel on the dsr. I actually haven't figure out the true root cause but I can say with 100% confidence that removing the splitters and using the amp's pass through has fixed my issue.

So why did I split the sub out? My intention was to basically run one amp from the L channel and the other amp from the R and tune each amp differently. This is because I thought it would be interesting to seal my sub behind the seat and then leave the two under the seat vented to try and capture some punch but still get the low end from the ported box.

I used Knukoncept Krystal Y adapters which I don't think are "bad" which is why I don't blame them. In my head either splitting the sub out caused the DSR to try and pull more power than it could and it would reset (like a thermal protect) or very coincidentally when I turned the volume up it caused some metal on metal with the adapter and it would ground itself out. I would imagine though that I would get the issue randomly during everyday driving - my issue was directly corelated to the output of the subs.

I fixed it on Friday and I haven't had the issue since and I am able to turn it up louder than I can handle with no issues. I appreciate the input from everybody, nice to troubleshoot with other knowledgeable DIY'ers.

I thought about posting some pictures but then I realized I haven't even finished the install (need to mount the 750 which means I need to do some rearranging). Once its picture worthy I may do a build log.

Again - thank you to everybody who tried to help.
 
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