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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
One thing I noticed is that nowhere on this forum or any forum (that I've found) is there any consolidated sharing of time alignment parameters. I define "parameters" simply as the millisecond or inch/cm delay for each of your speakers that has been set into your DSP or head unit. Yes there is phase and EQ and other bits to deal with but this is just about time alignment, which is universally understood as awesome and not as complicated to grasp. Point being - it'll get you there.

I don't know why this type of information is so hard to find but it would be unbelievably helpful for folks (especially newbs) with similar vehicles as yours to use your parameters as a starting point - to at least get it close and then make minor adjustments from there. Yes, it's better to teach someone how to fish vs. had them a fish but some people, like me (for one), learn best through example. It can help someone train their ear. Others may just use this info as a shortcut and not do anything from there - so what? I think it'd be helpful to anyone, especially beginners wanting to go active or even for those with a basic passive system wanting to use the time alignment feature of their head unit to their advantage.

Yes, vehicles are different but time alignment parameters for a Nissan Pathfinder might get someone with a Dodge Durango in the ballpark. Someone with a Honda Fit might find the Ford Fiesta parameters helpful to get them moving. And so on...

I posted a video on YouTube when I had my Ford Fiesta (lemon) and provided the time alignment specs that I ended up with. I later adjusted them a bit but very little and, even with a passive setup and tweeters in the doors above the door handle (a terrible OEM location), I had a surprisingly nice center stage, perhaps a bit to the right but I couldn't work that out.

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW0S1ldrZgw&list=UUi0varlb0_BZ8wXm473Vrow

Here's how I think listing the parameters will be most efficient, using the Fiesta as an example:

Vehicle: 2011 Ford Fiesta SES
Vehicle Notes: Basic system for commuter vehicle that was going to evolve into a competition vehicle at one point. Ditched the car due to transmission issue. Anyway, all OEM locations were used. The OEM tweeter location is above door handle at the top of the door card but vertically behind the 6.5" woofer in the door. A ****ty tweeter location - it literally is only inches in front of your chest when sitting in the seat!
Head Unit: Alpine CDE-HD149BT
Speakers/Front: Infinity Reference 6.5" Components (2-ohm; passive)
Speakers/Rear: Infinity Reference 6.5" Coaxials (2-ohm; passive)
Amplifier(s): Just head unit power, which was actually not bad!
Wiring: Stock
Results/Opinions: I was able to achieve a surprising center stage (well, slightly dominant to an inch or two right of center) with passive components and head unit power using the Alpine's time alignment features. Height was just above the front most quarter of the dash (not the best but fine) and width was as wide as the windshield (average). It wasn't professional-grade and there was some wandering of lower vocals but nothing that I wouldn't expect from this setup and, frankly, totally tolerable. Later minor tweaks, which I don't remember, helped but not exponentially so.

Measurement Parameter: Inches / CM / Milliseconds

Speaker Locations:
Center: N/A
F/L Tweeter: Top, middle of door panel above door handle
F/L Midrange: Lower door toward front of vehicle
F/L Midbass: N/A
F/R Tweeter: Top, middle of door panel above door handle
F/R Midrange: Lower door toward front of vehicle
F/R Midbass: N/A
R/L Tweeter: N/A, passive system
R/L Midrange: N/A, passive system
R/L Midbass: N/A, passive system
R/L Full-Range: Lower door toward front of vehicle.
R/R Tweeter: N/A, passive system
R/R Midrange: N/A, passive system
R/R Midbass: N/A, passive system
R/R Full-Range: Lower door toward front of vehicle.
Subwoofer 1: N/A, no subwoofer
Subwoofer 2: N/A, no subwoofer

Time Alignment Parameters:
Center: N/A
F/L Tweeter: N/A, passive system
F/L Midrange: N/A, passive system
F/L Midbass: N/A, passive system
F/L Full-Range: 21.4 inches
F/R Tweeter: N/A, passive system
F/R Midrange: N/A, passive system
F/R Midbass: N/A, passive system
F/R Full-Range: 0.0 inches
R/L Tweeter: N/A, passive system
R/L Midrange: N/A, passive system
R/L Midbass: N/A, passive system
R/L Full-Range: 4.0 inches
R/R Tweeter: N/A, passive system
R/R Midrange: N/A, passive system
R/R Midbass: N/A, passive system
R/R Full-Range: 14.7 inches
Subwoofer 1: N/A, no subwoofer
Subwoofer 2: N/A, no subwoofer

This isn't a thread intended to bash or judge or critique other's time alignment findings. Like I said, this wasn't perfect but was great for a passive, head-unit powered system. Let's take the mystery out of getting time alignment started, guys and gals... sharing is caring. :beerchug:
 

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With my 80prs and current mid/tweet combo I've found setting it to the "Initial" T/A puts everything right up on the dash. Auto T/A always pulled way to the right.

Tweeters - Image Dynamics XS-28
Midbass - Ground Zero Uranium 6.5
Sub - JBL GTO 10" ported

Other than the sub...the settings on "Initial" are almost exactly the same as actual measured distances :eek:

Right tweeter - 50"
Right Mid - 52"
Left tweeter - 32"
Left Mid - 38"
Sub manually set to 75"

Showing my front setup...with the doors closed the tweeters aim right at my gear shifter. 2011 Ford Mustang (base model...did not have the shaker 500 8" woofers)
 

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Well these database doesn't exist, because it depends on too many parameters.

For exemple, the driver's head position (the seat move, and drivers have different size), the xover and EQ settings change the local group delay which affect the time alignment of each speakers (look IIR filter).

So even in the same car with the speakers in the exact same location, there will not be the same time alignment values between two setups...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
We all know that, man. I thought I explained that point enough. But a similar car and similar setup can get you close in your own car. That's the point.

Let's leave this for sharing parameters if we can. I know it's not perfect.
 

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I agree. If people want to share to help other people, that's great. Perhaps a thread full of time alignment data will help those trying to understand to get a better idea of what it all means. And if you don't want to participate, then don't. My time alignment is done via MS-8, so I can't share just yet. But as soon as I can, I will. Even it only helps one person understand, why not?
 

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I'll post a screen shot of the numbers on my P99RS when I go to lunch. Though I'm still trying to dial in TA so they haven't been finalized yet.
 

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Good Video! very good general advice was given during the first 11 mins also.

I will be watching this thread for TA settings and numbers by those bi amping components.
One question I have, is why DSP's give the settings in Ms and HU's in inches?


Not to be rude, just thought I would mention that I am thinking about selling my less than 3 month Alpine HU, it has a 2 year BBuy warranty and most likely it can be registered with Alpine for the manufacturer's warranty. I am thinking a Simple DD, BT HU since I have a DSP to play with the sound settings.
 

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With a LOT of help from Casey!




2004 Honda Accord sedan

1" and 3" located in temporary pillar pods atm, midbass in oem location in the doors...........
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Inches / CM convert to milliseconds knowing the speed of sound. It's just different ways of thinking about it and doing the calculation. Milliseconds is technically the core unit of measurement.
 

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2014 Subaru Crosstrek... Silver Flutes in the OEM door locations... NVX/SB Acoustics tweeters in the OEM dash locations... Kenwood 12" sub in the sparetire well... Still experimenting, but my current settings are as follows...

LT 1.57 RT .91
LM 1.77 RM .79
Sub 5.64, reversed polarity
 

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Thank you for the explanation of the MS, inches

Here are mine from what I can remember forgive me for the X since it is a fraction
LT 1.3
RT 00
LMB 39.X
RMB 5X.X

LSW 41.X RSW 41.X
Rev ph
 
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