DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
2019 VW Jetta GLI
Joined
·
180 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So how do some manufacturers rate their drivers for let's say 100W rms/1000W max (instantaneous power). Is this just a marketing gimmick? Most drivers you see the RMS to be half of the peak power so how can a driver have 10x the rms for a peak?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,484 Posts
Peak numbers are inherently scams. How long is a peak? It can't be a measurement of thermal capacity if it's a peak. So it could be the limit of what your mechanical suspension can handle in an unspecified box at an unspecified frequency?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
So how do some manufacturers rate their drivers for let's say 100W rms/1000W max (instantaneous power). Is this just a marketing gimmick? Most drivers you see the RMS to be half of the peak power so how can a driver have 10x the rms for a peak?
The pipe dream is that ALL manufacturers would use the same standard and many standards have been developed over time but none of them use the same testing or limits as parameters for that testing. Much the same way amplifier manufacturers don't all use the same criteria for power output...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Way back in the day (90s) I owned some raw Dynaudio tweeters and I believe they were rated for 100w continuous and 1,300w peak.

That was long before everything shifted towards unrealistic inflated ratings .

-Eric


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
Depends on the company. Morel for instance list rms. But also transient power for a second or some very small amount of time.
Some of the transient numbers for their tweeters on Madisound are crazy. 1000watts for a tweeters. Given morels background I kinda believe them.
For instance
Rectangle Font Schematic Parallel Slope
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
It almost isn't even worth providing a power handling rating.

People think power handling is a power requirement--"how many watts does this speaker need?" That's ridiculous.
People think they should use 3X the RMS rating because "headroom". That's also ridiculous.
People hove no idea how "power" is distributed in music or in pink noise. They don't know what pink noise is.
If speakers were rated for 5 watts, no one would buy one--not even a tweeter, even though the tweeter never even gets 5 watts.
People have no idea what any of this means. They want a number so when they melt stuff, they can say, "but my amp only makes xxx,xxx watts and I never turn it up.

And finally, people think that their warranty, which covers defects, is actually an insurance policy for which they don't pay premiums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
LOL. We test both RMS and peak power concurrently with shaped noise that has an average power equal to RMS and a peak power equal to the peak power handling rating.

And no one pays any attention to any of the ratings anyway.
Is there a general use ratio of RMS to peak power? In most cases, it looks like a 1/2 ratio (RMS/peak).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Peak numbers are inherently scams. How long is a peak? It can't be a measurement of thermal capacity if it's a peak. So it could be the limit of what your mechanical suspension can handle in an unspecified box at an unspecified frequency?
It could be the wattage corresponding to just a bit under the dielectric breakdown voltage of the voice coil enameling at nominal impedance...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,316 Posts
Is there a general use ratio of RMS to peak power? In most cases, it looks like a 1/2 ratio (RMS/peak).
^That^ my man, is referred to as Crest Factor.

It is generally 13-18 dB, but the loudness wars moved it down… so it is more like 1:20 ratio… and NOT a 1:2 ratio.

If you are using 1-2 W in a tweeter then a 20-50W amp is all one ever needs.
And one is a usually using more like 1W per side… and the tweeter gets less than the woofer.

Even if one goes to 100dB SPL, the RMS watts will not be far away from 10W/side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
There are two aspects of power handling. One is thermal and this is the RMS/Peak.The other is mechanical. Don Keele has developed a thing called a "boink" test, which is a ramped sine wave that's designed to test the mechanical limits without heating the coil.

Regarding regular power handling testing and the distribution of power in music, you can check this out.

Pink Noise, White Noise and Why Your Tweeters never get 150 watts - Audiofrog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
There are two aspects of power handling. One is thermal and this is the RMS/Peak.The other is mechanical. Don Keele has developed a thing called a "boink" test, which is a ramped sine wave that's designed to test the mechanical limits without heating the coil.

Regarding regular power handling testing and the distribution of power in music, you can check this out.

Pink Noise, White Noise and Why Your Tweeters never get 150 watts - Audiofrog
The boink test. I like it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
The boink test. I like it.
I tried that test on my better half last night after a few glasses of red wine...

Joking aside, I prefer to "overpower" a speaker rather than underpower it.

IMO, you're better off with 250W/ch pushing a pair of 125W mids than 30wpc on the same speakers. Why? Because you're not going to push 250w to the speakers when you set the amp up properly, and unless you're a derrrrpmaster, you'll back off the fun knob before audible clipping.

Trying to get clean, loud sound from a 30w amp on an 82dB efficient speaker is going to heat things up faster than the 250w amp. I know that's probably an unpopular opinion, but I've been installing since I was a kid in the 1980s, and have yet to fry a speaker by "overpowering" it, even well before I used measurments to set gain.

My Boston 6.4 Pros had a (175w?) max rating, and were run for five or six years off of a HiFonics series VIII Thor, which could've powered a small city.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
^That^ my man, is referred to as Crest Factor.

It is generally 13-18 dB, but the loudness wars moved it down… so it is more like 1:20 ratio… and NOT a 1:2 ratio.

If you are using 1-2 W in a tweeter then a 20-50W amp is all one ever needs.
And one is a usually using more like 1W per side… and the tweeter gets less than the woofer.

Even if one goes to 100dB SPL, the RMS watts will not be far away from 10W/side.
I should have been more clear, my question was specifically in relation to subwoofers and midbasses/midranges, not tweeters. Crest factor doesn't really help either, because we don't listen to the same song all the time.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,316 Posts
I should have been more clear, my question was specifically in relation to subwoofers and midbasses/midranges, not tweeters. Crest factor doesn't really help either, because we don't listen to the same song all the time.
Yeah…
It (crest) also doesn’t really work with subwoofer freqs.
The sub is usually either on, or off.
Maybe classical with some big drums, organs, or something else would work.
But synth and dubstep stuff is not the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
539 Posts
It almost isn't even worth providing a power handling rating.

People think power handling is a power requirement--"how many watts does this speaker need?" That's ridiculous.
People think they should use 3X the RMS rating because "headroom". That's also ridiculous.
People hove no idea how "power" is distributed in music or in pink noise. They don't know what pink noise is.
If speakers were rated for 5 watts, no one would buy one--not even a tweeter, even though the tweeter never even gets 5 watts.
People have no idea what any of this means. They want a number so when they melt stuff, they can say, "but my amp only makes xxx,xxx watts and I never turn it up.

And finally, people think that their warranty, which covers defects, is actually an insurance policy for which they don't pay premiums.
I could not agree more.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top