My guess is ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) but I'm not sure what year they started that in the Edge. The 2018 F150 that I rode in with ANC had a fluttery effect at certain speeds but did not do anything sitting still with the engine off in accessory mode. Does yours do the same thing with the engine off?

 

If the LC2i is the older model, it doesn’t have load generators built in. Meaning the factory amp doesn’t see a speaker (sub) on that channel and can do funky things. Sony systems are temperamental like that. Pick up some AC-LGDs by AudioControl and place them between the factory amp and your powered sub and see if that helps.

 

Wow! I wasn't expecting quality ideas so quick! This is great.

daloudin - I know there is no change with vehicle speed or engine speed. When I was curious about a voltage drop, I sat in the driveway changing RPMs and there was no improvement/change. I don't recall if I've noticed it when the engine is off, easy enough to check though. I'll also check for a setting for ANC that could be turned off.

mawills - I bought the LC2i just a couple years ago, but it was an open box or clearance buy so no telling how long it may have been on the shelf. When I pulled the fuse that feeds both the AudioControl and amp/sub they obviously wouldn't power up, but maybe that didn't fully remove them from the equation? The factory amp maybe could have still been effected by the tap? I don't remeber now, but I think I used the factory amp output, (possibly for the factory sub) into the LC2i high input. If daloudin's free suggestions don't fix it or give any other clues, sounds like it's worth trying some AC-LGDs. Acording to AC, it looks like they can go on either side of the LC2i. Is one side preferred or does it not matter?

 

I have a 2014 Edge with Sony system and started out going high-level into an AudioControl DM-810. Had issues with noise and the tweeters made horrible noises. Called AC and they explained why the AC-LGD’s were needed and recommended I use them on all channels; problem went away. They have to go between the factory amp and the LC2i, and they are directional.

Also, the Sony HU distorts at about 75% so don’t go above 24 on the volume. It potentially could be the CD player also. It gets extremely hot back in the area it’s in and it’s also nearly 8 years old.

 

Not above 75%?! I didn't think you were supposed to listen to The Who, Metallica or Zeppelin at less than 75%!! That's going to be a problem. I did upgrade the door speakers to Kappa's, don't hear any distortion. I find full volume not enough on many occasions, but can't afford the necessary improvements.

 

I hear ya’. The 25 Watts isn’t enough and CDs always seemed quieter to me so you have to crank it. There are some cost effective ways to get more power though.

 

OK. I'm a newbie to posting in forums in general and understand you try to stay on topic, but you put it out there, so I'll bite! I'll lay out my crazy, poor boy plan and ask a question or two. You can tell me if I should start another thread, if one exists (I know many do, but very hard to weed through the chatter for a specific solution) or if it's fine to continue here.

Again, I'm looking for a quick, wallet friendly improvement to the volume issue. I have a mid level skill set, but not a lot of time or patience. Also don't want to take up any space with speaker boxes.

If I remember, the LC2i also has a full range output. I was considering coming out of that into a low price class D amp (for example there's a Kenwood on C.L. locally for a fair price). Of course I'd have to double check where I originally pulled the LC2i input from and change it if needed. But I'm stuck where to go next for speakers. I love me some mid bass and my ears are not fans of treble. I've never heard treble my ears liked. Either it was just OK or irritating, but never sounded special. That's from live rock shows to my friend's guitar in the basement to all manners of car and home stereo. I think I've heard enough treble in my life to say it must just be my ears. I also am less conserned with sound stage / imaging than I am with volume with at least respectable sound quality.

I've considered dusting off some old Polk 6.5s I have in the back of the garage and finding a way to just add them to the mix, but haven't found an easy, out of the way spot to install. Looking at pods mounted somewhere around the rear, side glass under the 3.5" rears, but nothing seems to be a slam dunk, simple fit. The other weak idea was to just move the rear door Kappa's over to the new class D, but didn't know what that would do to the overall sound when I didn't have it cranked up and would the missing load adversely effect the factory system?

So is this just a poor man's lunatic dreams, or is there some level of plausibility to these crazy, hair brained scenes?! Any other suggestions of equal simplicity? Or do I just start saving my pennies and take it to the pros?!

again, you brought it up, I just took the bait!

 

Easiest Method:
Get a Rockford DSR1 and ARN-AR-FO2 harness. This completely eliminates the factory amp but keeps all the Sync functions. Everything is plug and play; no cutting, splicing, etc. It gets rid of the factory EQ, gives you a flat signal, and full pre-outs for up to 8 channels. Also has a DSP built in, but you can set it up to just use the factory Treble, Midrange, and Bass settings on the radio. It allows you to get somewhat advanced tuning or just simple tuning.

For great sound this is the best option. You can find them used on here every so often or on eBay to save some cash. The downside is that you will need to amplify any speakers you wish to use.

 

Hmm, interesting... I'm aware of DSPs, but never paid much attention due to the cost. Guess I just assumed they were too new to have many on the used market. I'll have to look into it. So the harness takes you from factory to "jump" the Sony amp. Any chance it has a component to get you back out to the speakers? Or am I cutting into the factory speaker wires, not that that is a problem. An 8 year old SUV, don't really care about being able to go back to orig.

I'm thinking a simple class D 4 channel could meet my needs by covering the 4 Kappa's in the doors, but what about the factory tweets? Though I don't put stock in the high end, I'd probably miss it if it weren't there at all. Do you know if they are pulling off the front door speakers with their own crossover, or are they crossed in the factory DSP and fed a separate signal from the amp? Wait! Nevermind, I think one set of the Kappa's is a dual axial! If I'm right, I could definitely get away with a simple 4 channel.

 

Yes. The DSR1 eliminates the factory amp, they even say take it out of the vehicle (which is nice because it frees up some space.)

The harness that I mentioned connects to the factory harness coming off the amp going to the speakers (all of them.) You just connect the wires out of the amp to the corresponding speaker wire on the harness. They are labeled so you know which is which. No cutting and you’re using the factory wires to each speaker.

The stock tweeters are kind of crap, they run on their own channel from the factory. If you have coaxial speakers they will sound better. If you do miss them, you can down the road get components and put the tweeters in the factory location and if using a passive crossover, wire that to the harness that connects to the factory speaker wires (if that makes sense.)

A four channel will work fine. The Kappas are usually 2Ohm speakers so the amp will give them a little more power than a 4Ohm (about +3dB increase in sound level.)

Like I said, the DSR1 route is the easiest way. You can try to explore the FORSCAN route and change the output to variable voltage, solder RCA ends on and go to an amp that way. Or cut into the factory wires, use LGD’s on all channels you tap into and all channels not using the factory amp.

 

An update to the original question... Entertaining daloudin's thoughts, I went out to give a listen w/out the engine running, also turned off the speed adjust to eliminate that as well. Still had the problem. I guess that debunks the heat theory too as it was the first entrance of the day into the vehicle on a 35 degree morning. Mawills, all I have to go on now is your thought about the load generators, but I'm seriously considering your approach to eliminating the fact. amp and if I do that, the lack of the load generators would not be an issue.

Though I'm considering your idea, it would take me some time to accumulate the gear and I probably wouldn't do much with it until spring anyway. So to anyone else reading that has other ideas, I'm still listening!

Maybe I'll disconnect the LC2i from the factory system to remove that variable and see what I have.

 

Trying to digest all your great info! Sometimes my brain misses the obvious, takes too long for light to dawn on marble head! Could you briefly explain what the DSR1 does or adds beyond just the Meastro AR by itself?

Do the factory Sony speakers play well with aftermarket amps, or is that the variable voltage you were talking about? I'm wondering how much I'd be loosing going 4 channel and not using the 3.5s in the D panels, but they are still factory right now. Should I be trying to find a way to intergrate them in, or do you think I wouldn't miss them much? Again, like decent sounding, loud rock. Imaging / soundstage are not as important, but I wonder if removing the 3.5s would make it sound like the music is coming from my a$$ because of the low mounted door speakers...

As an aside, It's amazing how things have changed... I miss the simplicity of my yout' where I could list my set-up in a single breath! Pioneer SuperTuner III, A/D/S PS5.2 amp and a pair of Jensen 6x9s in the rear deck of a '72 Skylark. So simple and sounded great! Now, it takes people a whole paragraph to share their gear!

Crap, when the hell did I become the old crank! "When I was young we had to REWIND if we wanted to hear the song again!"

 

The AR by itself is just a smart box. It ties into the data bus to keep sync settings and other factory features, and fixes the audio to create a flat signal. An AR requires an AR compatible DSP, of which there are a handful, and a specific harness for said DSP. Arc Audio, Audison, and Kenwood are a few of these compatible DSPs, and they are not cheap. So the Maestro AR is a great piece by itself, but requires the purchase of a DSP also.

The DSR1 is a Maestro AR with a DSP built in, so there is significant cost savings. It has the features for novice tuning to some pretty advanced tuning. You’re not forced into something that may be out of your comfort level, and you have the ability to dabble in more technical stuff as far as tuning; it’s a flexible piece.

The variable voltage I was referring to is the signal coming out of the HU to the amp. It is a fixed voltage meaning as the volume changes the voltage does not. If the HU was variable, you could bypass the factory amp without any type of smart box needed.

Those speakers in the “C” pillars don’t do a whole lot. Ford, and other OEMs, seem to think throwing speakers everywhere is needed for immersive sound. If you have rear door speakers with good power, you won’t notice they’re gone. I wouldn’t worry about integrating them.

 

I tell you, registering with this site and posting is one of the best things I've done in a long time. Your suggestions are exactly what I was looking for without knowing it, but your explanations and breakdowns are even better. Very clearly explained without getting too tech. Thank you very much.

Not only do I know what I want to do, you made it sound doable for a moderately skilled person such as myself. Now I'm anxious to get going, probably faster than the wallet or weather will allow. If my wife starts complaining about the money I'm spending, I'm blaming you!

I assume if I'm removing the amp, I can also pull the factory sub, giving a bunch of space.... Wait! If I'm doing all this, why couldn't I keep the factory sub? Or at least the enclosure?! I've read people are fairly happy with it after stuffing it. I would need more than a 4 channel, but selling the LS2i and powered Cerwin Vega would help some with cost AND I'd get the floor space behind the drivers seat back!

This just keeps getting better!

 

Sometimes the factory subs can be extremely low impedance, so they may not be compatible with typical aftermarket amplifiers. Have you checked the Ford forums to see what other owners have done?

 

I've poked around off and on for a couple years. The solutions to better sound are all over the map and most can be costly. The origin of this thread was to try to figure out the cause of an audio "flutter" (for lack of a better term) from the CD player. Couldn't find anything on other forums that addressed it. Mainly because I couldn't find anyone with the exact same problem. The rest of this thread is all mawills fault! 😁 He/she (?) went outside of that and brought up my search for better sound on the cheap, quick and easy. But you have a valid point with the impedance. I suppose I could load a 8" aftermarket into the factory sub enclosure if needed to get away from the powered sub taking up space on the floor.

 

Definitely remove the factory amp and sub (if you choose not to use it.) Save the bolts though because the space is great for putting amp boards. If/when you get the DSR1 feel free to hit me up if you have any questions.

 

Pulled the input off the LC2i and tried some otther sources. Confirmed the problem is CD only and pulling the LC2i made no difference. Looking more and more like a defect in the CD player. I hope not, that's my main usage and would rather not have to rip apart the dash and replace.

 

PROBLEM SOLVED!!! This was starting to become a bitter sweet post as I was becoming quite excited about the low costs improvements to the factory suggested here and was chomping at the bit to make some purchases and for spring to provide the warm weather to get to work, but also lamenting the fact that the CD player sounded like crap and all that work would be for not if I couldn't reolve the problem or had to spend even more on another CD player / head unit.

Well, rock gods be praised!!! Thank you Jon Lord!! Thank you Jimmy Page and Thank you Kieth Moon!!!! While bored in traffic, I was poking around in the different menus exploring deeper than I had before, more out of curiousity than solving the sound quality issue. That's when I stumbled upon a setting buried in a wierd place called "Make your music sound like crap!" Actually, I think it might have been the compresser. Don't know how it got turned on, I never use it and didn't even know it was there, but must have been one of the times the head unit farted and reset itself because it didn't used to be on. But that's what caused the wierd wavering sound. Part of the problem was because the setting was in a wierd location. It wasn't under the "sound" settings with the tone control and balance & fade where you'd think. While playing a CD, there's an "option" button on the right where the "make your music sound like crap!" setting resides.

I'm pissed that something so simple and stupid caused me all these headaches and yet at the same time happy it was a simple fix. Also, if it hadn't happened I wouldn't have found myself posting here and never would have got all Mawill's great suggestions. So I guess in the end it was worth it.

Thank you everyone and I hope someone else down the road can benefit from this solution.

 

Running with Mawills suggestion, I picked up a used DSR1 and Kenwood KAC-304 to go along with the C.V. underseat powered sub. I didn't need a ton of power but have a little fear the KAC-304 might not be enough of a jump over the Sony system. Fingers crossed it will be worth all the work. After some reading here and elswhere, looks like I'll keep the amp crossovers open and/or as wide as possible and hit the DSR1 up for actual crossover points. I did have a question about amp gain when the DSR1 has volume adjustment for each channel. I know I start w/ the HU flat, balance & fade in the middle and full volume w/ out distortion before increasing the amp gain. Would the DSR1 be at full vol. also and only reduce the DSP volume after amp gain is set if I need to back off an over powering channel?

 

The DSR1 has 4V outputs and the KAC-304 has 5V inputs, so you should be able to run the DSR1 wide open without clipping the Kenwood. Gain structure should be bias towards minimizing the gain used on the last piece of equipment. As long as the DSR1 isn't sending a clipped signal the KAC you'll be golden.

 

Thank you. I appreciate the "why" to go along with the "how". Putting numbers to the explanation lifts the curtain off the black magic!

 

Brief update... HOLY CRAP THIS SOUNDS GREAT!!! I'm no fabricator and not terribly creative, but I've been able to do a fairly clean install of the DSR1 and KAC-304. Had to run an errand right after the final connections and was terribly disapointed there was no sound. It was a long several hours driving in silence! Spent many hours the next day troubleshooting the DSR1 until I finally found success. That damn thing is quite finicky! The most likely culprit was a bad / buggy original flash. Once I finally got it working I was happy to find the little Kenwood was a massive improvement over the factory Sony amp. Even the Kappas thanked me for finally allowing them to stretch out! I was so blown away by the SQ and DBs, and I don't even have the sub connected yet. I also need to do some more tuning. Mawills mentioned I could either use the DSP to control the sound characteristics or keep it simple and use the factory HU Bass / Mid / Treble. I figured I'd do a little tuning in the DSR1 and then use the HU from there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like it can only be one way or the other? I had it programmed so the Factory EQ would keep control of the B/M/T and it seems it locked out any EQing (or time adj.) on the Fosgate. If that's the case, I'll have to go back and re-program it to be controlled by the DSP only.

This could easily be the best sounding system I've ever had (granted, that's probably not saying much!). I really get off on mid-bass frequencies and this set-up absolutely nails that range. There is a bit of a muffled / muddy / tin can overall sound though. I plan on messing with it further, but if anyone has any suggestions where to start to clean that up it would be welcomed.

Can't wait to get the little sub hooked up. My wife is already concerned I'm spending too much time just sitting in the driveway, eyes closed, listening to The Who. Once the sub is installed and working, all my needs will be covered, I suppose I could just divorce her!

 

I think it is one way or the other as far as tuning goes. The HU route is very limiting because each band covers a range of frequencies that may or may not react well to all speakers. Going the DSP route is definitely the way to go, it is an extremely capable DSP. You can adjust each frequency to your liking and remove that muddy sound you are experiencing. Just keep in mind to try to make “cuts” where possible and try to avoid more than 3dB gains on frequencies that you boost. Learning to use a DSP is fun and that’s a great piece to learn on✌