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Discussion Starter #1
Can I just insert this behind my helix and feed at an already tuned signal? Seems like it would make its job easier and since I don't plan on keeping it, id rather not mess with taking my helix out. Thanks.
 

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I did something similar with my Pioneer p880rs feeding my Match DSP6.
I have my Drivers seat formal tune with laptop/Helix unit and then I tried going through the Pioneer Autotune on the HU.
The end result, which is what I had hoped for, was a good two seat tune once I select FRONT as the listening position on my HU.
Of course, when I’m by myself, I defeat the HU’s listening position and use the straight formal tune....but it works well for a quick two seat tune!

Forgot to mention that I turn off AUTO EQ on the HU and only use the FRONT listening position as a good two seat TA compromise


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Discussion Starter #4
I did something similar with my Pioneer p880rs feeding my Match DSP6.
I have my Drivers seat formal tune with laptop/Helix unit and then I tried going through the Pioneer Autotune on the HU.
The end result, which is what I had hoped for, was a good two seat tune once I select FRONT as the listening position on my HU.
Of course, when I’m by myself, I defeat the HU’s listening position and use the straight formal tune....but it works well for a quick two seat tune!

Forgot to mention that I turn off AUTO EQ on the HU and only use the FRONT listening position as a good two seat TA compromise


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My miggest issue with pioneers auto tune is it tunes for perfectly flat (or as close as possible)
If you understand how it works, you can auto tune, the make curve corrections. I ran pioneer head units for 2 decades and that auto tune feature was handy once you figured out the work arounds.
If they'd let you use your own curve it wouldn't be half bad.
 

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In this car, I use autotune for TA only.
One of Our other cars has the P99rs. I’m actually using its autoEQ now with a few level tweaks!

The point of my post was to highlight a simple way for a two seat tune, by changing the position of the HU only after it’s done autotune and once my tune to my helix has been established.


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Discussion Starter #6
In this car, I use autotune for TA only.
One of Our other cars has the P99rs. I’m actually using its autoEQ now with a few level tweaks!

The point of my post was to highlight a simple way for a two seat tune, by changing the position of the HU only after it’s done autotune and once my tune to my helix has been established.


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I understand. I just went off on a tangent. I ran pioneer auto eq for almost 20 years. It dies a pretty decent job once you learn to manipulate it and know how to adjust the aftermath to meet your curve. Thats all I was saying.
 

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I understand. I just went off on a tangent. I ran pioneer auto eq for almost 20 years. It dies a pretty decent job once you learn to manipulate it and know how to adjust the aftermath to meet your curve. Thats all I was saying.
Fully agree!

You should experiment with Dirac live. Does it have listening position settings?


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Discussion Starter #8
Fully agree!

You should experiment with Dirac live. Does it have listening position settings?


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Idk. I dont have it yet. Was thinking about picking one up to play with then sell. I just want to see fir myself ya know. I compete amd really don't want comps to come down to who can run Dirac the best. In my opinion, if its really "that" good it should be banned from comps!
 

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Idk. I dont have it yet. Was thinking about picking one up to play with then sell. I just want to see fir myself ya know. I compete amd really don't want comps to come down to who can run Dirac the best. In my opinion, if its really "that" good it should be banned from comps!
If a competition is who can tune the best, then yes.
Ir is the competition is what sounds best?

Then it is like the lumberjack complaining about these:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If a competition is who can tune the best, then yes.
Ir is the competition is what sounds best?

Then it is like the lumberjack complaining about these:
I get your point but if everyone is just running Dirac, what's rhe point? Who has rhe better curve?
 

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I get your point but if everyone is just running Dirac, what's rhe point? Who has rhe better curve?
Speaker placement and install still counts for something.

For instance woofers in doors and MR in the dash and tweeters in sails can be time aligned to a seat. However in a multi seat tune (and maybe others) it is still better if the three speakers on each side are mashed together in space.

And while Dirac can improve impulse response, particularly of the smearing caused by IIR fileters in the cross over regions. One can note that the impulse response of the speaker still plays a fundamental role how well they can do.

Also Dirac cannot really do a whole lot about harmonic distortion and IMD, so speaker and amplifier choice has a fundamental role there.

If it is staticstically easier for many to get a better tune with Dirac, then I would not consider that to be a bad thing. And with few enthusiasts being well versed in DSP theory, then it makes sense for the DSP people to market their skills towards solutions that achieve better DSP to be implimented.

It is basically called progress and modernity.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Speaker placement and install still counts for something.

For instance woofers in doors and MR in the dash and tweeters in sails can be time aligned to a seat. However in a multi seat tune (and maybe others) it is still better if the three speakers on each side are mashed together in space.

And while Dirac can improve impulse response, particularly of the smearing caused by IIR fileters in the cross over regions. One can note that the impulse response of the speaker still plays a fundamental role how well they can do.

Also Dirac cannot really do a whole lot about harmonic distortion and IMD, so speaker and amplifier choice has a fundamental role there.


If it is staticstically easier for many to get a better tune with Dirac, then I would not consider that to be a bad thing. And with few enthusiasts being well versed in DSP theory, then it makes sense for the DSP people to market their skills towards solutions that achieve better DSP to be implimented.

It is basically called progress and modernity.
Im all about Dirac for your daily enthusiasts. Just not sure how I feel about it in compition.

Other than speaker placement, everything else you mentioned is car audio basics. I could run my utopia 3 way, put the tweets in sails,, midrange in pillars and midbass in kicks and just destroy the compition without even breaking a sweat.
With Dirac i basically feel like it will come down to who can afford the most accurate speakers and cleanest amps where right now you can win a comp with budget gear and a great tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I see your point. Really. Its similar to djing. It used to be manually beat matching vinyl. Then the sync button came out. If you know the basics you can make everyone think you are a fantastic dj. I dont hate on the sync button. It makes djing accessible to lots of people who don't have the dedication to spend years crafting their skills. Not everyone wants to. We live in a world of instant gratification and tech is giving us that more and more. If Dirac makes someone happy, GOOD!. But just like the sync button, I will not use Dirac permanently. Ive spent half my life crafting my skills at work and in my hobbies. The learning for me never stops and I am I am attracted to these things "because" they are difficult. Thats where I get my enjoyment. Learning. Perfecting. My hobbies are some of the most difficult things in the world. Sound design, tuning sound systems, skateboarding, flatland bmx (what it takes today to rode at a pro level is INSANE. ) I love these things because they are hard amd every little jump in skill is its own reward.
Id hate to see that taken away from compition!
 

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It seems conceptually similar to having a separate Olympics for people doing downhill ski racing on old wooden skis, versus people using the newer composite skis.
 

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Im all about Dirac for your daily enthusiasts. Just not sure how I feel about it in compition.

Other than speaker placement, everything else you mentioned is car audio basics. I could run my utopia 3 way, put the tweets in sails,, midrange in pillars and midbass in kicks and just destroy the compition without even breaking a sweat.
With Dirac i basically feel like it will come down to who can afford the most accurate speakers and cleanest amps where right now you can win a comp with budget gear and a great tune.
Define classes by dollar amount then. Doubtful.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It seems conceptually similar to having a separate Olympics for people doing downhill ski racing on old wooden skis, versus people using the newer composite skis.
Dude you can rephrase it all you want. I understood the first time. My point is, buy Dirac or lose. Thats not a competition. Thats how much money are you willing to spend...
That will make comps inaccessible for most people.
 

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You could not be any further from the truth. I have Dirac in my vehicle and am happy with how it sounds, do I think I could enter a competition tomorrow and win, nope, it's not a trophy printing machine. Would I hope to do well, absolutely, but that would be the same if I had used any number of DSP I have owned in the past.

If I had not bothered with treating my doors, Dirac won't fix those rattles, if I had not bothered figuring out crossover points for the speakers I chose, Dirac won't fix that, if my subwoofer was in an incorrectly sized enclosure, Dirac won't fix that. If I had set my gains to some stupid level and was getting distortion, yep, Dirac won't fix that.

Just because I and others choose to utilize a tool that is available to help with tuning, does not mean that we are automatically going to win competitions, nor should it mean we are shunned for our choice of equipment. I know how to tune a DSP to where I can get a decent sounding system manually, as I get older, I'd prefer not to spend hours in the garage tweaking and tinkering when there are many other things I would rather spend my time doing. You don't feel that way, fine, but it does not mean that using Dirac is a negative thing and nor should it be looked at as such, whether that be in competition or not.

Your post reminds me of the people who complain that someone paid an installer to install and tune their system. "boo, you did not install that, you suck" Should those people not be allowed to compete in the same class? Should we have competition split out into "Paid an installer" vs "Installed myself" classes? Better then split it into people with 2 way and 3 way, after all, 3 way is better right? Oh, and don't forget Class A/B vs Class D....
 

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Im all about Dirac for your daily enthusiasts. Just not sure how I feel about it in compition.

Other than speaker placement, everything else you mentioned is car audio basics. I could run my utopia 3 way, put the tweets in sails,, midrange in pillars and midbass in kicks and just destroy the compition without even breaking a sweat.
With Dirac i basically feel like it will come down to who can afford the most accurate speakers and cleanest amps where right now you can win a comp with budget gear and a great tune.
If you think that’s all there is to competition you’d lose 😂 Dirac can’t make a bad install good despite what you think... you can’t just throw drivers in and press a button... it doesn’t work like that!
 

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You could not be any further from the truth. I have Dirac in my vehicle and am happy with how it sounds, do I think I could enter a competition tomorrow and win, nope, it's not a trophy printing machine. Would I hope to do well, absolutely, but that would be the same if I had used any number of DSP I have owned in the past.

If I had not bothered with treating my doors, Dirac won't fix those rattles, if I had not bothered figuring out crossover points for the speakers I chose, Dirac won't fix that, if my subwoofer was in an incorrectly sized enclosure, Dirac won't fix that. If I had set my gains to some stupid level and was getting distortion, yep, Dirac won't fix that.

Just because I and others choose to utilize a tool that is available to help with tuning, does not mean that we are automatically going to win competitions, nor should it mean we are shunned for our choice of equipment. I know how to tune a DSP to where I can get a decent sounding system manually, as I get older, I'd prefer not to spend hours in the garage tweaking and tinkering when there are many other things I would rather spend my time doing. You don't feel that way, fine, but it does not mean that using Dirac is a negative thing and nor should it be looked at as such, whether that be in competition or not.

Your post reminds me of the people who complain that someone paid an installer to install and tune their system. "boo, you did not install that, you suck" Should those people not be allowed to compete in the same class? Should we have competition split out into "Paid an installer" vs "Installed myself" classes? Better then split it into people with 2 way and 3 way, after all, 3 way is better right? Oh, and don't forget Class A/B vs Class D....
Well said! Drop is like the car audio equivalent of Chuck Norris... Chuck Norris can walk into Burger King... order a Big Mac... and get one 😮😂
 

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You could not be any further from the truth. I have Dirac in my vehicle and am happy with how it sounds, do I think I could enter a competition tomorrow and win, nope, it's not a trophy printing machine. Would I hope to do well, absolutely, but that would be the same if I had used any number of DSP I have owned in the past.

If I had not bothered with treating my doors, Dirac won't fix those rattles, if I had not bothered figuring out crossover points for the speakers I chose, Dirac won't fix that, if my subwoofer was in an incorrectly sized enclosure, Dirac won't fix that. If I had set my gains to some stupid level and was getting distortion, yep, Dirac won't fix that.

Just because I and others choose to utilize a tool that is available to help with tuning, does not mean that we are automatically going to win competitions, nor should it mean we are shunned for our choice of equipment. I know how to tune a DSP to where I can get a decent sounding system manually, as I get older, I'd prefer not to spend hours in the garage tweaking and tinkering when there are many other things I would rather spend my time doing. You don't feel that way, fine, but it does not mean that using Dirac is a negative thing and nor should it be looked at as such, whether that be in competition or not.

Your post reminds me of the people who complain that someone paid an installer to install and tune their system. "boo, you did not install that, you suck" Should those people not be allowed to compete in the same class? Should we have competition split out into "Paid an installer" vs "Installed myself" classes? Better then split it into people with 2 way and 3 way, after all, 3 way is better right? Oh, and don't forget Class A/B vs Class D....
I agree completely, and I couldn’t say it any better. I have dozens of tunes with Dirac, and in my opinion, a couple guys who have heard several of them, and in competitions - they are getting better as I have learned the software and made tweaks to crossovers, TA, EQ in the Plug-In, and experimented with many things in the Dirac side of the software.

Erin H got a great tune in his car, and he hasn’t made any major changes to it in a year using the MiniDSP. I have tried dozens of different things, and I have really enjoyed the process. So it can provide a lot of options to someone who wants to keep learning or it can be a set and forget - enjoy music.....tool.


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