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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read lots of different forums and I have kept track of peoples' opinions on different drivers. For example, I read a lot about Seas Excels and Scan-speak Revelators. I would like to put together a home audio system and after researching some, I see hundreds of different DIY cabinets. Many times the Excels, Revs, Focals, Dyns, and the list goes on are never mentioned.

My question is, how come the home audio guys don't seem to highly tout the Excels and other lines like the car audio guys do. I want to put together a cabinet with drivers like what I have in my car. I have have a pair of W12s in my car with Hiquphons and L18s. Can the Orion be made to sound as good as many of the high-end cabinets being made out there, or is it just a well documented project online with great results?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/TAC-review.htm

I hope my writing is understandable and thank you ahead of time for any replies! Thanks guys!!
 

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excels are not touted everywhere as much because of price. they believe other Seas and Dayton drivers offer very close performance for much less. the Dayton mid for example is pretty close and cost 1/5th the price. for the Excel tweeters its the same. the Seas 27-series tweeters cost 1/5th of the Excel tweeters for similar performance. its $500 less for drivers in a Mid/tweeter pair.
 

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tf1216 said:
My question is, how come the home audio guys don't seem to highly tout the Excels and other lines like the car audio guys do.
They do - see BESL, Ellis 1801, various speakers by Rick Craig/Selah Audio, Salk, and so on - but there is relatively less discussion of them now than there was, say, two years ago, because there are new drivers are the market that perform almost as well and cost much less. (Dayton Reference.) Also, I suspect that in the next year the DIY audio boards will be swamped with people using the new Peerless HDS stuff, even though the previous generation sandwich-cone HDS drivers were outstanding but little-noticed.

Also, these things are perhaps more popular in car-fi than in home audio because car-fi guys are more likely to use steep active crossovers EQs, which makes the Excels' problems easier to handle.

tf1216 said:
I want to put together a cabinet with drivers like what I have in my car. I have have a pair of W12s in my car with Hiquphons and L18s. Can the Orion be made to sound as good as many of the high-end cabinets being made out there, or is it just a well documented project online with great results?
I've never heard the Orion, but I have heard an earlier version of the same concept by Siegfried Linkwitz, the Audio Artistry Dvorak. The Dvorak used inferior drivers (ScanSpeak kevlar 8 and tweet, Gefco woofers with about 1/3 the xmax of the XLS) and a passive crossover in the mid-high panel. Despite its limitations it was brilliant, though ultimately my tastes lie more with designs that have more tightly controlled directivity through the midrange. Based on that experience and the universal acclaim the Orion gets from anyone who hears it, I would expect it to outclass all but a very select few commercial speakers regardless of price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys! You answered my question perectly.

Is there anyone or a group of people who can help come up with some designs if given driver specs? Someone like npdang who takes the time to test everyone's drivers?

I would like to use Seas 27TBFCG with some an Excel 7 or 8" in each with a 10" Peerless. How come peeps usually use a 7" or 8" opposed to the 5" drivers?
 

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have you checked out

http://home1.stofanet.dk/troels.gravesen/

its a similar design to the orions. it uses the Excel mids and woofers, but a different tweeter. I havent seen your exact set.

although for a similar set, you can go with an RS28/RS150/RS270 combo. theres one listed at htguide.com in the DIY forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have been looking for that site, I found it once and could never find it again. Thanks! I love the design with the L22 and the W15 and ribbon. You think I could put a LCY ribbon in its place?
 

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I'm not aware of the frequency response and impendance of the LCY ribbon. in order for the crossovers to match, those two things need to be equal or close.
although you might find that tweeter to be pretty good.

heres bob.

http://www.doddsy.net/steve6_008.htm

although perhalps you can take the to crossover design from the Bob. you might be able to use the same crossover for the millenium on the 27TB tweeter. than take the bottom crossover from the acapella at the other site. although you'll need to ask the designer for the plans.

also if your not aware, dipole designs are not as loud as regular box speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Cool site, Thanks! I was not aware that dipole designs are not as loud. I am assuming dipole designs incorporate drivers operating free-air. Am I correct?

Edit: I have another question and let me apologize ahead of time for asking a newbie question. What does the "M" and "T" represent when people refer to the design of the cabinets? For example, sometimes I see MMT. Can someone please answer that for me.

I think I am going to investigate Dave Ellis' 1801b design much further. Down the road I might incorporate a Peerless woofer.

www.ellisaudio.com
 

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yeap, dipoles are free-air. I think they bottom out easily because of that. just like subs.


M= midbass T= tweeter W=woofer

the Ellis design does have lots of good reviews. Although me being budget prioritising I look at the L18/Seas set from zaphaudio.com. he says its about 95% of the performance for less than half the price. or the RS180/Seas combo at htguide.com. its only $200 in parts. and has similar reviews to the L18.

also theres a dipole being worked on at HTguide.com. using Dayton RS28 tweeter. which compares to seas tweeter. some M8a mids. not as good as the L18 or RS180, but still soundes really good. and some TC2+ subs. the designer has many speakers and he says he is happy with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Damn you DearS : )

I just came to the post because I figured out what the M,T, and W stood for. Now I feel like a dope. Honestly, thank you a bunch for the reply.

The big reason I like the 1801's is because I love the Excels. I do need to watch how much I spend so I might honestly go with the L18/Seas configuration. Great advice and thank you (so much!) once again!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have been looking at a lot of completed designs and it seems many involve a 7" driver and not a 4" or 5" driver to play the midrange. I understand in a 2-way the 7" can play lower while maintaining the strong midrange. But in a 3-way configuration a lot of people will add a 10" to the existing 7" and tweeter design. Do people find that to be an optimum arrangment over a tweeter, 5", and a 8" configuration?

I understand in car audio most 8" drivers are located in the doors so you do not want to cross them over above 200 Hz because it will have a negative effect on the sound stage. But does the same hold true in home audio?

I hope my question was clear. Anyone with any input?
 

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Yes and NO. if the lower drivers are tuned above 200hz their positions will be identifiable. but you can tune it and place it to work together with the other speakers, even if crossed past 200hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks DearS! Maybe if I explain myself better it will be easier to understand what I am wondering about.

I would like to find a design that utilizes the 5" Excel instead of the 7" Excel in 2-way system. I would like to upgrade down the road with a woofer to make a 3-way system. But I would rather upgrade a tweeter and 5" design with an 8" woofer instead of a tweeter and 7" design with a 10" woofer. I want to know if the 8" can play those frequencies where the 5" does not meet the 7" below 300 Hz. Does that make sense?
 

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thats a bit of a hard question. from the tests I've seen, the 5" and 7" dont look at much different in frequency response. from that, I wont except either one to win in these sets. although If I were not going to add a sub to the 3-way, I'd go with the 7" and 10" combo.
 

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tf1216 said:
Thanks guys! You answered my question perectly.

Is there anyone or a group of people who can help come up with some designs if given driver specs? Someone like npdang who takes the time to test everyone's drivers?

I would like to use Seas 27TBFCG with some an Excel 7 or 8" in each with a 10" Peerless. How come peeps usually use a 7" or 8" opposed to the 5" drivers?
Check out the review forum for a link to MANY websites with reviews of almost every popular driver out there.

Imho, I have never liked traditional box designs or passive crossovers. A dipole, transmission line, or something of the sort where enlcosure resonance isn't an issue would be ideal for me. And I'm also a big fan of room correction/active systems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Darn it! After looking at 100 different designs I finally made chose a design which included a sealed box with a port. Also, the design utilizes a passive crossover. This is what I was looking for because I only have the cash to purchase a single 2-channel amplifier. Not 3 like I have in my car.

Npdang, what makes you like the dipole configuration over designs that have resonance issues? I have read tons of reviews and everyone seems to love the 1801b sound which is the design I was considering. It utilizes my favorite drivers : ) I have seen other reviews of designs with similar drivers in a dipole configuration and the reviews were not straight up exclamatory!

1 step forward, 2 steps backwards. No hard feelings : )
 

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well in Npdang has his opinions. and many people do like both dipoles and boxed designs a lot. although they tend to like dipoles better. also some of the issues he noted, can be somewhat fixed with proper placement of the speakers and crossover designs. I do plan to upgrade to dipoles too. thats part of the reason I'm going with Dayton speakers. there are already dipoles based on it available.
 
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