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I'm thinking of using raamat for my doors but started thinking that the shiny (aluminum ?) surface is just going to reflect sound instead of absorbing energy. Does anyone think this is a problem? If so, how do I deal with it? (I don't think the competitors use this type of backing)
 

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A shiny surface reflects light, not sound. The shiny surface would have almost nothing to do with any type of sound reflections. The of use of products like Raamat are for deadening resonances/excess vibrations and decreasing noise through panels.
 

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The absorbtion of energy you're talking about is actually in the form of vibration. What you're doing with dampeners is mass loading an area. You're making it heavier, so it's therefore harder to shake. By minimizing vibration you give the speaker a more stable platform to perform on, and that in turn allows for lower end response.

Now any flat surface will reflect soundwaves. That's where deflex pads, or eggcrate foam, or a whole slew of products comes in. Secondskin offers a neoprene type product. You can buy deflex pads at Parts Express. You can buy eggrate foam just about anywhere. That's where the absorbtion comes in is with these materials.
 

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Yea, rick advised me to do this setup, one layer of bxt everywhere....knock on panels and ones that still resonate, add second layer of bxt. Then if you have the cash, seal it over with 2-3 layers of the spray stuff (get it in all the cracks and crevices also, then do a layer or two of ensolite foam everywhere...also stuffing any hollow spaces with loads of it behind panels etc., then eggcrate foam or deflex pads behind speakers......

dead silent car is what i'm looking for! I think ^that suggestion will get me there......

ps--don't know if rick actually advised ALL of this, I'm actually improvising from several different guys who've advised me and I'm combining all of their advice into one plan, lol
 

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cam2Xrunner said:
Don't forget about Ensolite foam too. Rick sells this alongside Raammat and is the cheapest place you'll find it.
Werd, thats what i am using. The raamat for vibrational deadening and the closed cell foam for sound absorbtion....best combo out there...
 

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Here is my actual install guide and there are additional options like egg crate(I prefer actual accoustical foam and it is open cell and thick so only usable in certain areas, never use open cell in a door!) The ensolite I recommend has an open surface to better break up sound waves and absorbs better than a smooth surface close cell foam, much better overall. Plus it is a soft version so far easier to install and have it stay in place as well as helps prevent rattles, etc, when between door panels and the doors etc.

I generally do not advise liquid deadeners mainly due to all the labor and time waiting for them to dry plus a few other issues;)

This guide will work for any good deadener brand you prefer.


"GUIDE TO INSTALLING ****mat – BY RICK MCCALLUM, RAAMaudio

Here is what I recommend; this is from years of experience and a lot of customer feedback. It works very well.

Tools:
Utility knife, used to cut and trim the mat and to rub it down into corners.
Heat gun, only used if really cold out to warm up the metal, mat or both, not needed for most installs.
Roller, so little need with ****mat that we have never sold them or given cheap ones aways as sales gimics;) Of course you can pick one up at your local hardware store if you want to use it.


Front/Rear Doors (With Speakers):
Remove door panel and plastic moisture barrier; toss the barrier in the trash. Place one layer of mat on outer door skin and overlap the seams, cover at least 3/4ths of the suface area. Place two additional smaller layers, about 12" sq., behind the speakers, then place one patch of closed cell foam on top of those layers. Check for loose wires, cables, etc., inside the door, secure with foam tape, tie wraps, etc.

Build up the speaker mounting location. I make a solid baffle usually from MDF(medium density fiberboard)that fastens to this area to mount the speaker to, sometimes needed to be fairly thick for clearance issues with the back of the speaker and window mechanism. To save some weight you can use Baltic Birch plywood, around half the weight as MDF, harder to find, costs more, we use it for most projects now.

Seal up the door access holes with a piece of thin galvanized tin, anodized aluminum (aluminum screen door repair panels from your local hardware store work just fine) I use self taping sheet metal screws to mount the metal with. If you have door lock rods to work around you can slip some wire loom over them and bend the metal to make sure not binding then mat up to but not touching the rods. Then install one layer of mat over the whole inner door metal, overlapping the seams by 1/2", seal all air passages possible, cut the mat back around 1" from edge of door panel. Add a layer of 1/8" closed cell foam (Ensolite is best) to the top of the mat, cut around all mounting points; same for the mat. To make sure the door panel will fit back on properly, cut back around 1/2" from the edge of the panel.

Next tap on the door trim panel, any resonating areas can be matted on the back side. Usually, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface is enough. Install the panel and test the door; slam it a few times and listen for rattles, etc.

Doors Without Speakers:
Just do the inner door metal. There is no need to mat the outer door skin.

Kick panels:
Remove the kick panel trim and look for hole under the pad there, usually opens up to the lower A pillars, a great place for road noise to enter the vehicle. Seal them up with some mat and a layer of foam, you can even add more foam to the back of the trim panel.


Rear Side Panels/Outer Metal Skin:
One layer of mat over the area then a layer of foam to absort ambient noise. If possible you can seal up access to the area instead, like you would do a door without speakers, some cars and trucks have areas like this. If that is the case, not needed on the outer skin if you are blocking the area from the interior already:)


Rear hatch:
Same as rear doors without speakers or side panesl

Floor:
Place one layer of ****mat everywhere. Tap on the floor and add a second and sometimes a third layer to the resonating areas only. ANY MORE IS A WASTE OF MAT AND EFFORT. Once an area is deadened, there is nothing more to gain with adding more mat. Some tend to over use the mat in some areas and not enough in others. Add a layer of ensolite and in some areas less supported, meaning flat more resonate prone ones a second layer can be added. When doing two layers you can add some strips of mat between the layers in key noise areas to absorb acoustical energy in those trouble spots.

Roof:
Not usually needed as it acheives the least beneficial results for alot of effort but if going all out, then most certainly do so. The best advice is to wait until the rest of the vehicle is done, then test and decide what to do. One layer of RAAMmat is the most that should be needed with the possibility of some patches in the middle of the least supported areas. Then cover it with a solid layer of closed cell foam. "

--We use dash pads, going to upholster the one in our current project car though. We also are upholsterying some of the console, lower dash, kick panels, etc.

--A patch of ensolite over at least two layers(I use three most of the time) behind speakers in doors, etc, can be nearly as effective as a deflex pad and only costs pennies.

--I used to spray all the areas I could not mat but over time realized small areas, areas with tight bends, short radius curves, etc, are very stiff and generally can be left without being treated. On floors and cabin walls we do mat over all those areas because of the general resonate issues the have.

Hope this helps!

Rick
 

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rimshot said:
youll be fine :) use it! B-quiet and fatmat are good alternatives as well
I'd advise against Fatmat, since it uses an adhesive that smells. I installed some in my door and the smell lingered in hot weather for about a month. It also isn't as sticky as naturally-adhered materials.

Dan
 

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Ludemandan said:
I'd advise against Fatmat, since it uses an adhesive that smells. I installed some in my door and the smell lingered in hot weather for about a month. It also isn't as sticky as naturally-adhered materials.

Dan

Sounds like the characteristics of Asphalt :p

IMO there's no other way to go than Raammat.

I just installed about 25 sq ft into my drivers side door today. Very easy stuff to work with. Doesn't smell, and it doesn't cut your fingers at all.

A while back my friend bought some eDead. That crap is nasty. Smells like crap, and I probably had over 10 cuts on each hand. Then to top it off, a few weeks later, it ended up falling off onto the window and was a HUGE PITA. And I prepped the surface very well. :mad:
 
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