[Tom Westling]

I am looking for a DSP that can take a MOST signal directly. The other unit I became aware of is the mObridge DA 3. It retails for $750.

The iPhone apps and wireless digital inputs of the Rainbow would be valuable to me as we are an iPhone/iPad/Mac family. Does Rainbow have a history of executing stuff like this well?

 

[Elgrosso]

These guys didn't wait: BEWITH-FOCAL : 네이버 블로그

 

[subterFUSE]

I am looking for a DSP that can take a MOST signal directly.

What's the major benefit of a DSP that takes MOST directly vs. a DA1 + any DSP of your choice?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[t3sn4f2]

Don't know if you guys noticed but when you run the media player within the rainbow app it internally opens the iDevice media player and runs it in the background. So you can go and open the main music player or any player or player that does the same thing and navigate your music from there. It works because you can go to the rainbow app after navigating a bit and the album art and current track will be updated and reflected on the rainbow player. even going back a track with the rainbow app will play the one you just track forwarded on in another music app. So you don't have to be limited to the DSP app's media player.

Now if it is still sent out wirelessly to the DSP after switching over, we won't know. But I don't see why it wouldn't.

 

[Elgrosso]

Don't know if you guys noticed but when you run the media player within the rainbow app it internally opens the iDevice media player and runs it in the background. So you can go and open the main music player or any player or player that does the same thing and navigate your music from there. It works because you can go to the rainbow app after navigating a bit and the album art and current track will be updated and reflected on the rainbow player. even going back a track with the rainbow app will play the one you just track forwarded on in another music app. So you don't have to be limited to the DSP app's media player.

Now if it is still sent out wirelessly to the DSP after switching over, we won't know. But I don't see why it wouldn't.

Good find! I just tried and yes any adjustment in the ios player or any other app applies to the dsp player app too, and vice versa.
I also streamed to my airport at home from the app.
And it seems that they're talking about something like that in a video in the link I posted, but not sure, maybe someone here who speaks Korean could confirm?
The rainbow wifi module must be a kind of airplay receiver, not only tied to the app, that's cool.

 

[Tom Westling]

I think there are three benefits to connecting to MOST directly.

First the price of the DA 3 or Rainbow DSP will be less expensive than MOST unit + DSP.

You don't have to do a MOST to Toslink conversion (I can't say that this will necessarily provide any loss in fidelity). The mObridge folks told me that there would be some hit in fidelity.

Finally with my Mosconi unit a Toslink input requires its own volume control so you can't use the factory headunit's volume.

 

[subterFUSE]

Finally with my Mosconi unit a Toslink input requires its own volume control so you can't use the factory headunit's volume.

If you are using a mObridge this statement is false.

mObridge embeds the volume into the digital signal. The factory volume control still works and you don't need a controller for the DSP.

 

[Tom Westling]

Thanks for the clarification.

So a MOST direct system would only be cheaper and sound better.

 

[subterFUSE]

Only if the DSP in the direct unit is apples to apples, which it probably is not.


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[Tom Westling]

Here is the email from the engineer at mObridge:

"...You are also eliminating a piece from the chain which will result in a better overall sound quality. The DA1, DA2 & DA3 are all DSP processors so hooking a DA1 into a Mosconi has essentially added two DSP's into the system and as you add each piece you will introduce more THD and SNR because thats just the nature of it.

We switched out a DA1 combo with a DSP the other day in a Volvo for a DA3 and the customer was actually surprised that you can hear the difference."

 

[subterFUSE]

Here is the email from the engineer at mObridge:

"...You are also eliminating a piece from the chain which will result in a better overall sound quality. The DA1, DA2 & DA3 are all DSP processors so hooking a DA1 into a Mosconi has essentially added two DSP's into the system and as you add each piece you will introduce more THD and SNR because thats just the nature of it.

We switched out a DA1 combo with a DSP the other day in a Volvo for a DA3 and the customer was actually surprised that you can hear the difference."

Since you are emailing them, could you ask them a question? I've been wondering about this and not sure where to find the answer.


Is the DVD drive in the dash of my Audi a "player" or a "transport." In other words, does a CD being played in the dash get converted to analog by a DAC and then back to digital (A/D) to transmit over MOST? Or is the drive extracting the digital audio and not converting it, just sending the digital audio directly over MOST without any conversions?

I've been curious about this for a while, and the Audi dealer isn't much help.

 

[Tom Westling]

Will do. My understanding of the MOST system would suggest that the player is a transport as one of the design intents of the MOST system was to eliminate redundancy in processing. My guess is that there is one D to A in the system likely in the amplifier or the head unit.

 

[subterFUSE]

Will do. My understanding of the MOST system would suggest that the player is a transport as one of the design intents of the MOST system was to eliminate redundancy in processing. My guess is that there is one D to A in the system likely in the amplifier or the head unit.

Thanks for checking.


I know that in my Audi the AMI only accepts analog input. Therefore, when you hook up an iPod or iPhone to the AMI cable you are actually using either the DAC in the iPod (older model iPods) or the DAC inside the AMI cable (Lightning cable AMI). The signal gets converted to analog and then goes into the MMI. Then the MMI converts the signal from analog back to digital before sending it over MOST. Not exactly ideal.

I'm curious if the CD player does the same thing. My guess would be yes, it does convert to analog and then back to digital. But maybe the mObridge guys know for sure.

 

[t3sn4f2]

Will do. My understanding of the MOST system would suggest that the player is a transport as one of the design intents of the MOST system was to eliminate redundancy in processing. My guess is that there is one D to A in the system likely in the amplifier or the head unit.

That's how I see it as well. A head unit with simple DSP to do master volume control, tone, eq, etc., and then a noise free optical digital transmission to the amp to be processed in greater detail, specific to the system layout of that car.

 

[Tom Westling]

Thanks for checking.


I know that in my Audi the AMI only accepts analog input. Therefore, when you hook up an iPod or iPhone to the AMI cable you are actually using either the DAC in the iPod (older model iPods) or the DAC inside the AMI cable (Lightning cable AMI). The signal gets converted to analog and then goes into the MMI. Then the MMI converts the signal from analog back to digital before sending it over MOST. Not exactly ideal.

I'm curious if the CD player does the same thing. My guess would be yes, it does convert to analog and then back to digital. But maybe the mObridge guys know for sure.

I pulled up the installation guide on mObridge and it shows a block diagram with the CD changer having a MOST input/output to the head unit. Sure would make sense that it acts as a transport. I bet there is a dac in the head unit for the changer and possibly HD radio for use in a base stereo where there is no external amp. Alternatively, the head unit then acts as a digital source to a upgraded Bose or B&O system.

 

[subterFUSE]

I pulled up the installation guide on mObridge and it shows a block diagram with the CD changer having a MOST input/output to the head unit. Sure would make sense that it acts as a transport. I bet there is a dac in the head unit for the changer and possibly HD radio for use in a base stereo where there is no external amp. Alternatively, the head unit then acts as a digital source to a upgraded Bose or B&O system.

I hope that you are correct. But if the CD player works anything like the AMI input, then there would be a DAC conversion and ADC conversion before the signal gets to the MOST cable.

The reason I'm trying to find out is because my primary source right now is an Audison Bit Play HD. I have the mObridge DA1 for the MMI source, but I almost never use the MMI anymore because the Bit Play goes directly into my DSP. However, at car audio competitions the judges always have a CD so I'm really interested to know the signal path for CD in my car.

 

[t3sn4f2]

I hope that you are correct. But if the CD player works anything like the AMI input, then there would be a DAC conversion and ADC conversion before the signal gets to the MOST cable.

The reason I'm trying to find out is because my primary source right now is an Audison Bit Play HD. I have the mObridge DA1 for the MMI source, but I almost never use the MMI anymore because the Bit Play goes directly into my DSP. However, at car audio competitions the judges always have a CD so I'm really interested to know the signal path for CD in my car.

I think that only applies to devices when they had the 30pin connector with the analog out pins. Whenever you use a USb or some type of digital media it works just like a file drive holding music files that the head unit accesses.

BMW used to have the same limitation. My dads X5 came with an iPhone docking cradle that pulled the analog out and would not be compatible if you undocked it and plug it straight into the USB input port with the apple charging cable. But connect a thumb drive or media player that could be set to MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) and it would read it just fine.

Probably has something to do with copyright laws back then.

 

[subterFUSE]

I think that only applies to devices when they had the 30pin connector with the analog out pins. Whenever you use a USb or some type of digital media it works just like a file drive holding music files that the head unit accesses.

I know for 100% fact that in the current Audi cars with MMI, the AMI (Audi Music Interface) does not accept digital inputs. This is true for the old iPod 30 pin connectors, and even for the new Lightning connectors. The new Audi AMI cable for Lightning actually has a DAC in the cable because Lightning itself does not output analog. The AMI cable requires the DAC in the cable because the AMI port won't accept digital, only analog.

It's crazy because the car uses MOST and therefore has to convert everything to digital anyway. But alas, that's the way it works.


So far, the only exception to the D/A conversion with current Audi cars is the Jukebox or SD Card slots. However, on my car those 2 mediums both only work with MP3 files. WAV, ALAC and FLAC are not supported.

On the 2016 models with the new MMI system, Audi has enabled FLAC support.


Anyway, the only part I'm not sure about is the CD player in the dash. If I had to venture an educated guess, I would say the dash CD/DVD player is a "player" and not a "transport." But it's just a guess.

 

[nanohead]

I'm really interested in this unit as well. I have 2 MOST cars that I want to upgrade the audio in, and processors are on the top of my list. The one I use the most (pun intended) is a 2012 MB E550 Cabrio, that has the Harman system. It probably has decent enough hardware to make it sound good, but it has the ancient COMAND system that the old fart Mercedes engineers thought was good a decade ago.

I'm personally torn on using a MOST bridge and "any" DSP, vs an integrated unit. In most cases, I'd prefer to choose a DSP, but there's always a real estate problem with all these added boxes we add to our cars. I also have an R8 that with the B&O system, that just sounds awful. I also can't imagine where in the world I'd install another box, as there's not even enough room to put my cell phone...

So I'd be in for at least 1 unit, and I'd also be a guinea pig if I can get a unit to try and install in the Benz.

 

[subterFUSE]

I'm really interested in this unit as well. I have 2 MOST cars that I want to upgrade the audio in, and processors are on the top of my list. The one I use the most (pun intended) is a 2012 MB E550 Cabrio, that has the Harman system. It probably has decent enough hardware to make it sound good, but it has the ancient COMAND system that the old fart Mercedes engineers thought was good a decade ago.

I'm personally torn on using a MOST bridge and "any" DSP, vs an integrated unit. In most cases, I'd prefer to choose a DSP, but there's always a real estate problem with all these added boxes we add to our cars. I also have an R8 that with the B&O system, that just sounds awful. I also can't imagine where in the world I'd install another box, as there's not even enough room to put my cell phone...

So I'd be in for at least 1 unit, and I'd also be a guinea pig if I can get a unit to try and install in the Benz.

The R8 is a car I've been looking at a lot recently. My wife wants an orange one. From what I saw, the car is pretty well suited for audio. I know I could get horns under the dash, and the doors should fit up to an 8" midbass without much issue. The subwoofer location is the only tricky part, but I would bet that one of the Illusion Audio woofers with the magnet on the front could be done in a shallow enclosure behind the seats.