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Discussion Starter #1
I'm getting a new (to me) car soon and I've started planning everything out from stripping it out, deadening, and wiring, to speakers.

My question is, considering I'm going active, would I be better off picking some raw drivers or sticking with a 2 way set and putting the crossovers in the closet. My concern is mostly just making the most of my $200 budget

I wouldn't really use the crossovers so it'd be nice to "save" that money. I found a thread similar to this before but it didn't quite answer everything. Suggestions on sets or raws are very welcome.

I was considering the image dynamics ctx65cs or the IDQ set as my component sets.

For raw drivers, I was looking at the 6.5 silver flutes for midbass and the seas prestige 27tffnc for tweeters.

The tweeters would be mounted on axis and I have 100 watts a channel to play with.

Thanks for the help.
 

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That tweeter is pushing it a bit for a 2-way, but you can probably cross it down to about 2.5khz as long as you use a fairly steep slope. I'd use a 24dB slope. I think the tweeter is the most important part of a 2-way system, so I always encourage people to spend more on a good tweeter that will play low enough without struggling. The Seas tweeter looks good, but I'd rather have a lower FS for a 2-way system. It'll work decently well though, and will be better than a lot of tweeters you'll find in a component set.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I figured probably the flutes at 2k hz at 24db and the seas at 2500 at 24db

Any other tweeter suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've seen those sb29's before and thought they were pretty nice. Did you have anything in mind on the midbass? If I went with those I could probably swing up to 50 apiece on them. I can't let myself get too off budget. It's hard enough as is lol
 

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I went with the Dayton Rs180, but there's a dynavox and a goldwood 6.5 that look good for door mounting. That would also keep you on budget. If you don't mind going 8 ohm a few more choices. Obviously a little easier with a higher budget.
 

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You got only $200 bucks! But you got a DSP? Is it a 4 channel or 6, or 8?


Well. If you got a DSP? That makes thing easy. But I'm going to be the first to tell you that your Midbass driver is the thing you want to spend your money on. The reason being is that it needs to play nice with the air space you got. I am assuming you are mounting in the doors right? 6" driver then? And you are going to use a Subwoofer?

Well. You get nirvana for the money if you just get your 6 inch driver in the OPTIMUM ENCLOSURE. I can't stress that enough. If you only have 2 drivers to work with? You can get away with even a $5 dollar tweeter if you can get your midbass driver to really work just right. Now if you are going to go full active, a 3 way or 4 way system even though it has more drivers, will get you there cheaper as you can use drivers for what they are and their strengths.


I also Agree with Shadow. That Dayton RS-180 is a great woofer. But if you don't damp it properly, or have doors that are not really sealed very well? Then you are just going to waste your money. The magic of that driver is when it it installed like fort knox. Solid is what I mean. And it needs airspace around the driver to really make it come alive. Back wave reflections just kill it IMO. So as long as you go the Length and spend the Labor time really tweaking the door location to act like a real enclosure as much as possible, then you might as well just go with a cheaper driver. It will sound almost Nasal or thin or can become flat sounding if you have it behind in some stock locations where it exists out of a "tunnel or tube" like thing out of a doors built in grill. If you ask me, if you spend the money on good drivers, then installation and placement is everything. Or you really are not getting your money's worth.


If you have to save some money, and you have a bad speaker mount location, or have to use these where the front of the cone is not really exposed to a flat baffle like exit, then just go with cheaper drivers that work well in the strictly 80 to 300 hz range, and run some mid and tweets. You get far more bang for your buck if you ask me.

The fact you have a DSP, that means you can get away with all sorts of tweeters. But I do recommend if you are on a extreme budget, go to the Junkyards and find a Volvo with the Dynaudio system or buy one from Ebay. Bar none, its the best value out there I have seen or heard. Hands down the BEST tweeters for Car Audio SQ use. They are so damn open. Don't distort when playing Piano tracks loud, don't sound harsh, (when in good working order) and just sound smooth and right. Most of the time? The ferrofluid is dry, and they are about to die any moment.


My next best tweeter recommendation on the cheap is the VIfa Tweeter or the Peerless one. Madisound has them on sale right now for about $7.00 bucks! If you can swing it? use 3 per side. It will keep the Distortion down at a low Crossover point and they will sound smooth and sweet if you use them with a steep crossover to a midrange driver.




There is also a 2 Inch midrange on sale at Madisound as well. Fountek.





There is also a 3 " driver that the boys at Madisound says does some very smooth vocals.


After listening to many different 3" full range speakers, we have found the 830986 to have a very nice balanced sound. It offers some decent low end response as well as good midrange an highs. The vocal intelligibility is some of the best we've heard in the 3" size.
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A guy said he used these in his doors and loves them. I have not heard them, but I have a friend that said these were good in the dash at was made to it in a 5.25 space. @ $20 bucks? Not bad.



Kevinyaheard bought "SB Acoustics SB16PFC25-8 6" Paper Cone Woofer - 8 ohm" on our website
09/25/2016 - 05:28:40 PM
Awesome
I run these in my car door and they are some of the cleanest sounding door speakers you can find at this price point. Don't be scared of the plastic basket, its hard as steel, prob abs plastic.


If you CAN squeeze and 8 in driver with a spacer? the 8 Inch version has no problem going up to 5 Khz. this dude says:


Reviewed by CJB0331
09/07/2018 - 07:32:56 PM
Somebody besides me has used these. Right?
The fact that this driver hasn't had the review it deserves is a travesty and a disservice to the DIY community. Hopefully I can change that. I cannot give a review of the bass response. I'm using them as wide band midranges. When Madisound suggests to try them without a crossover, they ain't joking. They roll off at 5.6Kh 3rd order Bessel. That's it. No drama, no nuthin'.

Having said that I would like to extol their other virtues: Clean, clean, clean. This is some clean midrange. 300-6,000Hz. I'm sure some or all of you are going to scream "Beaming!!!" or "Off Axis!!!" I get it...however, I like what I'm hearing and measurements from my listening position are +/- 3 dB from 180-8,000 Hz with no gating. I'm running them OB on a 16" wide baffle with a pair of Peerless SLS 12's and a Beston dipole magnetic planar per side. Tri-amping with a MiniDSP is employed with this set up and I'm very, very happy. These SB drivers punch way above their price point. I would consider these wide-band drivers, not just woofers. They are amazing for the price. The weird flange shape does suck.


Now, I know many people will poo on these drivers. But I'm going to have to give them a good mention for one reason.

See, in most cars the cabin gain really makes it sound warm and full. But the thing is, most speakers that sound flat in a home setting, sound nasal and lack detail in the midbass midrange. With a DSP this can be fixed. With a good EQ, you can also help it, but you then need an EQ per speaker to Band-aid fix this problem.
So, I like to use Midbass drivers in the doors for this reason. They PRV does a great job. However, thee is $20 mid bass from crutchfield that simply works great when just dropping it in a factory location, and little more needed to get good sound out of it when used as a simple 2 way system with a good large format tweeter. If you have 100 watts, these will give your the right response down to 80 hz while not making the midrange sound muffled. Just make sure to break in the stuff spider and surround and it should be great.

Lastly, I know they look cheap. I know they ARE CHEAP. But at $6.00 a speaker? Its really hard to find fault with this driver. lots of people use them in their cars and like them. And if they are good enough for this:


They should get you started while you save up for drivers that outperform these.

I mean.. If they are good enough for THIS...

 

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JBL GX600C component set on Ebay as low as $60 for a manufacturer refurbished set leaves enough on the table for a set of Seas neo tweeters to replace the comp set ones. Better equipped mid for a door than most raw you can afford with that budget. Run active... done. You'll thank me later

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The dsp i was planning using was the built in one on the pioneer 80prs. I've thought about going 3 way but the extra fab work and tuning is a bit much for me.

I'll be running a IDQ12 on 750-800 watts in a sealed box. Ill probably play with ported at some point. Modeling it out it seemed to have similar output to a Dayton 15".

@Bayboy I was genuinely looking at doing something similar a bit ago. I was hoping to find some no reserve auctions that were being ignored lol. I'll look into this more.

@imickey503 thanks, I've heard the differences between a door that's had the time and love put into it vs one that's been screwed into a cut to fit door panel hole. I'll be putting my best efforts into making sure that this happens.
 

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I disagree with imickey regarding the tweeter. In a 2-way you want a good tweeter that plays low, and you certainly do not want to put 3 per side. Multiple tweeters are one of the worst things you can do if sound quality is the goal.

The 80PRS will do a lot for you, but stick with 2-way plus sub, that's all it's designed for, and trying to use it to run a 3-way plus sub comes with some real issues. A well controlled 2-way will work better than a pseudo active/passive setup that you would have to use to run 3-way since the 80PRS cannot do 3-way plus sub fully active.
 

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I’d recommend the same SB Acoustics as mentioned by shadow and pair them with the papyrus or poly cone SB 6.5’s. I’ve used this combination extensively (though the NVX-branded variant) with great results. You can safely cross the tweeters over pretty low, I’d suggest 2kHz - 2.5kHz depending on what the PRS80 has available.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I disagree with imickey regarding the tweeter. In a 2-way you want a good tweeter that plays low, and you certainly do not want to put 3 per side. Multiple tweeters are one of the worst things you can do if sound quality is the goal.

The 80PRS will do a lot for you, but stick with 2-way plus sub, that's all it's designed for, and trying to use it to run a 3-way plus sub comes with some real issues. A well controlled 2-way will work better than a pseudo active/passive setup that you would have to use to run 3-way since the 80PRS cannot do 3-way plus sub fully active.
That's something else I was concerned about was how the 80prs would do the 3 way and the sub. I like it simple as possible since it'll leave me with less room for error.

I'd probably either save for the SB poly's or buy a jbl GTO set and sell the tweeters and crossovers ?.
 

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I’d recommend the same SB Acoustics as mentioned by shadow and pair them with the papyrus or poly cone SB 6.5’s. I’ve used this combination extensively (though the NVX-branded variant) with great results. You can safely cross the tweeters over pretty low, I’d suggest 2kHz - 2.5kHz depending on what the PRS80 has available.
The only issue with using the non NVX version is that the QTS is lower and not the best for I/B or door locations.


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JBL GX600C component set on Ebay as low as $60 for a manufacturer refurbished set leaves enough on the table for a set of Seas neo tweeters to replace the comp set ones. Better equipped mid for a door than most raw you can afford with that budget. Run active... done. You'll thank me later

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
Would the SB29 be a better choice since it can play a little lower? It’s a little more $, but maybe worth it?

The seas on the either hand seem easier when it comes to installation.


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Would the SB29 be a better choice since it can play a little lower? It’s a little more $, but maybe worth it?

The seas on the either hand seem easier when it comes to installation.


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Either is a better option over the JBL tweet. The SB can cross lower but the Seas isn't all that bad either especially if the fit is more important. The SB should be cleaner overall since it's more robust. The price & installation size difference are the only cons I see.

I've personally talked to someone that has competed with the Seas for a bit and had no issue crossing them @ 2.5khz while Zaph claims 2khz. He still recommends them for 2-way from time to time when strict budgets arise. I seriously doubt a 500hz difference is going to make or break pairing them with the GX600C mid when in its passive it is allowed to roll-off naturally while the tweet in that set is crossed fairly highly.

That said, the GX600C is a nice sounding budget set that several can attest to, including me, and also has been technically reviewed on a long standing Russian test ezine. You'd have a hard time beating it for the price available.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Either is a better option over the JBL tweet. The SB can cross lower but the Seas isn't all that bad either especially if the fit is more important. The SB should be cleaner overall since it's more robust. The price & installation size difference are the only cons I see.

I've personally talked to someone that has competed with the Seas for a bit and had no issue crossing them @ 2.5khz while Zaph claims 2khz. He still recommends them for 2-way from time to time when strict budgets arise. I seriously doubt a 500hz difference is going to make or break pairing them with the GX600C mid when in its passive it is allowed to roll-off naturally while the tweet in that set is crossed fairly highly.

That said, the GX600C is a nice sounding budget set that several can attest to, including me, and also has been technically reviewed on a long standing Russian test ezine. You'd have a hard time beating it for the price available.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
This set looks an awful like the infinity reference line. Which isn’t a bad thing. Pretty good bang for the buck. I had a set before and the tweeter is a little harsh but detailed. Needs eq to tame. The midbass had pretty tight suspension for good IB use.


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This set looks an awful like the infinity reference line. Which isn’t a bad thing. Pretty good bang for the buck. I had a set before and the tweeter is a little harsh but detailed. Needs eq to tame. The midbass had pretty tight suspension for good IB use.


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Reviewed here, it really is a decent set typical of JBL (and now Infinity) flavor. The two companies used to be a bit more distinct from each other, but I guess Harman decided to mix the brands more these days to save money.


The tweet is your typical budget set type but still works when dialed in with the attenuation switch and some EQ which is beyond the scope of this thread. I didn't have an issue tuning it out of the box with a lower tier Pioneer double din consisting of the usual 13 band EQ. Still, with an upgraded tweeter, you can see in the response graph that even a 2.5-3khz tweeter crossover point isn't much of a problem.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Reviewed here, it really is a decent set typical of JBL (and now Infinity) flavor. The two companies used to be a bit more distinct from each other, but I guess Harman decided to mix the brands more these days to save money.


The tweet is your typical budget set type but still works when dialed in with the attenuation switch and some EQ which is beyond the scope of this thread. I didn't have an issue tuning it out of the box with a lower tier Pioneer double din consisting of the usual 13 band EQ. Still, with an upgraded tweeter, you can see in the response graph that even a 2.5-3khz tweeter crossover point isn't much of a problem.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
I’ve had two sets of infinity components and every time I would attenuate the tweeter at the XO the tweeter would distort bad any any volume and and have very low out put. I always had to have it at 0db. -3db was the other option.


Sorry, but English is my only language and I cannot read that review.

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I’ve had two sets of infinity components and every time I would attenuate the tweeter at the XO the tweeter would distort bad any any volume and and have very low out put. I always had to have it at 0db. -3db was the other option.


Sorry, but English is my only language and I cannot read that review.

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Google translate is what I use when I visit that site.


I prefer JBL though I'm not sure there's a difference now. I don't recall having an issue like that with the GX600C though I can't say it doesn't exist. I was pleased with the results after installation including deadening + tune. I wound buying another set for another install.


Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 
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