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JBL GX600C component set on Ebay as low as $60 for a manufacturer refurbished set leaves enough on the table for a set of Seas neo tweeters to replace the comp set ones. Better equipped mid for a door than most raw you can afford with that budget. Run active... done. You'll thank me later

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
From experience. Just don't expect that midwoofer to play well below 100-120 hz.
 

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From experience. Just don't expect that midwoofer to play well below 100-120 hz.
You played with them, eh?


Meh... IME, most budget mids won't go deep without seriously giving up some output. Depends on vehicle, 100hz is a decent point, but more importantly is the shape of the curve in that area. If you notice the rise from lower midrange down to where a sub usually comes in, that is what you want.

A mid that graphs or plays flat even while digging deeper will call for some boost in that area or deep cuts above it when following common curves. This is a common issue when using most raw mids as well... great midrange, poor midbass because the lack of low end rise. Even with 8" midbass, I still cross no lower than 80hz (blasphemy, I know), but the shape of the curve and extra output in that area is what is gained.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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I have the 6x8 Stadium set installed with the optional midrange, remember ? The midrange is the best part of the set.
The midbass woofer sounds great most of the time. I am only giving the 2.5 ohm set about 65 watts rms. Sure gets muddy in the doors if I go below 100 hz with LR 24db HP. They really sound great at full power when HP is set at 120 hz but strangely messes up the bass integration with the subs, which are LP at 80 hz LR 24db.
Sorry to ramble.
 

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I have the 6x8 Stadium set installed with the optional midrange, remember ? The midrange is the best part of the set.
The midbass woofer sounds great most of the time. I am only giving the 2.5 ohm set about 65 watts rms. Sure gets muddy in the doors if I go below 100 hz with LR 24db HP. They really sound great at full power when HP is set at 120 hz but strangely messes up the bass integration with the subs, which are LP at 80 hz LR 24db.
Sorry to ramble.
You're fine. Lol

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So going forward, @Bayboy what's your opinion on starting with the gx600 mids or go up to the gto609 mids?
I know you asked bayboy but I gotta respond. The much larger 6x9 woofer will handle and utilize the bass alot better than the 6" woofer. Remember also they are lower impedance.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I know you asked bayboy but I gotta respond. The much larger 6x9 woofer will handle and utilize the bass alot better than the 6" woofer. Remember also they are lower impedance.
Ach my bad, I may have put the wrong model number in there. But the 609c is a 6.5" driver.
 

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No experience with that GTO series comp. Never desired to touch them since they aren't the same as the older versions. They don't appear as anything special except maybe the tweet is an actual soft dome though I still doubt they can cross low. The mids don't appear to have that good of a motor structure.... some complained about the lack of upper bass but you know how that goes. The Power series were impressive though some complained of premature driver failure... surround separated from the cone or something. If you find those, they'll be costly.

I do like JBL for budget builds because they tend to stick with their classic "voicing", just with varying degrees of performance from each series. The GX600C was a decent $179 set during their run.... now being defunct for way less raises value. Most of newer low to mid tier series have a bit of sharing between them to the point I'm not sure which are the better value. You can say they've kind of scaled back on being innovative these days. The CS1214 even seems to have been reincarnated a couple of times even though you can still buy them. Lol

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I like the JBL sets myself.

The Infinity sets of the reference series seems to all have that great open sound, but are no better then IMO, the cheap tweeters that came in my PT cruiser from stock as they sound almost exactly the same. They are just crossed over to low from the factory for clean sound and really need a 24dB crossover on the tweeter side. But then that ruins the open nature of the Infinities reference series & some of the Kappa's like the 5.25ix based systems.

Just as that one dude mentioned that a 2 way system is best... The easy install part goes out the window for me. The tweeter is always to far away from the Woofer in most cars. Having a tweeter that plays down low or can cross at 12dB point is great. But then lets be honest, you are now spending 100 Bucks on a pair of tweeters. Some cars its easy. Some? Not so much without custom pods in the doors depending on seating positions.

You guys remember back in the day when people used Horns like in that one Honda Accord? I think it used Image Dynamics Horns??? That was crossed over at 700 Hz. The waveguides/horns were mounted right in front of the driver under the steering column. The other was under the glovebox.

That system must have sounded amazing due to the way the horns work. But for most cars? You can get a really good right speaker soundstage, but not so with the drivers side where the woofer is like 83 Degrees of axis to your ears in door installs. If you use pods, then you are better of in most cars. But depending on seating position? It can be a mess.
Just like many have done here where they used a tweeter and a midrange up in the pillars, or up on the doors, its cheaper to get great sound that way with normal priced drivers and not that much extra work with the dsp or time alignment.

You can also use very cheap woofer drivers at that point that only need to go up to maybe 500-700-hz You avoid the Muddy midrange you get with lower quality drivers. I also thought you had a 8 channel DSP on hand, so never mind. WHen you have one? it really opens up the drivers you can get away with. :) Also all the phase problems you get with analogue crossovers that are Really a problem in the car environment. vs home.

The fact you can do EQ per driver on some units really takes care of some of the issues you get with some inexpensive drivers. Let alone being able to time align per driver really opens up possibilities on where you can place your speakers for a coherent soundstage.

FreeDSP is going to be my next foray into DSP, and the board for $15.00 and some solder work; that sure is a great way (albeit a VERY long process to program it in the car compared to MiniDSP or other commercial units) for even a very low budget build to sound amazing even with the most paltry drivers.

For reference, I did hear 2 Morel SUpremo installs that JUST sound okay. Not great by any means. Just okay.
Then I heard some of the Focal systems, and even the cheap $400 set sounded better IMO the the Morell installed car.

The best 2 way install I heard was inside of a Chrysler Convertible with Diamond audio parts. That system to my relocation did not even use and DSP. Or a super Fancy head unit. Infinity amplification, and a pair of Rockford Fosgate Punch subwoofers in the truck. To this day, that system still makes me wonder why more cars don't sound like that. Everything was Punchy, lively and clear. I think it even used the stock rear 6x9's as rear fill. Nothing special. But the sound man... The SOUND! It was so good, that became my reference in my mind to what a system should sound like.


Rumor has it that the guys who do the R&D at Diamond audio have a convertible, So it makes sense. :)


Anyways sorry about the Chatty Cathy. But when it comes to making things work with a budget, that would be my expertise. Admisiblity here, I don't think I like that dry sound of a Perfect system that some folks gush over when it comes to their systems. It just sounds sort of ... Well. Clinical. You move your head a bit, and that magic soundstage goes away. I tend to hate that sound. Kind of like how electrostatics have this sweet sitting spot. You walk out of that spot and it just kind of sounds like just about any other speaker.

And I better admit this. I like the Bose 301 series II speaker sound when just fiddling on about in my home. Just thought I'd admit that.. :)
 

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Harman products are pretty consistent but nothing that can't be outdone. It's just that for the value you'd have to spend a good bit more to.... that said, tuned right there's many that will do nicely.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Harman products are pretty consistent but nothing that can't be outdone. It's just that for the value you'd have to spend a good bit more to.... that said, tuned right there's many that will do nicely.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
Well OK then LOL AT THE SAME PRICE, would be hard to find a better midbass woofer. ESPECIALLY if you have the doors sealed off and deadened well.
 
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